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Yoder777 said:
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I personally believe that Dr. Sadler encountered a man who spoke spiritual truths in his sleep. The sleeping subject's own personal views, imperfections and limitations may have influenced what was dictated.


I think you should do a little more study and thinking on this. If God wanted us to have this knowledge revealed to us, he would definitely have chosen an infallible method. And that was what happened. So far there is nothing that I have come across to think the way you believe now.

The UB had been produced by supermortal involvement in accordance with the Will of God in a manner unique and first ever in the history of our planet. The 'sleeping subject' with whom Dr Sadler and the other contact members of his forum had the encounter was used by the superhuman revelators to establish a 'meaningful' contact with 'potential' humans to be initiated for a greater purpose and task.

That is how I see it.

God Bless !

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Rajan C Mathew wrote:
I think you should do a little more study and thinking on this. If God wanted us to have this knowledge revealed to us, he would definitely have chosen an infallible method. And that was what happened. So far there is nothing that I have come across to think the way you believe now.


On the other hand, it has to be conceded that an infallible method was not chosen for the previous four epochal revelations. If the UB is to be believed, the life and teachings of Jesus were immediately subject to distortion, which continues to the present day.

There are a few possibilities to consider. One is that the process by which the sleeping subject's mind was used was itself error-prone. Another is that the revelation was corrupted after being presented, but before publication. The latter is the position taken by Ernest Moyer. I know it's an unpopular position, but I frankly don't know how it can be ruled out. See Chapter 25 from his book. This uncertainty is part of the price we pay for the destruction of the original papers.

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The picture I get is that the contact method was imperfect and got better over time...like over 20 years beginning in 1911. Improvements within the contact personality and Thought Adjuster techniques and the contact commissions ability to accept new concepts. And there was an editing session:

Receiving The Completed Papers
http://urantiabook.org/archive/history/histumov.htm#receivingcompleted


If they write like me they are never really done editing...they just finally reach a "good enough...this will have to do" point and move on.

This:

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"I'll tell you how I think this paper was written. And my theory is not one-hundred percent correct. But its the best I can find. Visualize several places in space -- points A, B, C and D. I think the papers were dictated or conceived at point A and had we been there when any of these papers was written we would have seen nothing. A Divine Counselor is presenting his concepts in the language of Uversa*. A translator is there who translates it into the language of Salvington*. There is another translator there who translates from the language of Salvington* to the language of Satania* and another translator who translates from Satania* into English. You cannot translate from Uversa* into English because the languages are too far apart.

"I suspect that 99% of the original concept was lost in translation -- English is too primitive a language. Take Bantu where they have one, two and then "many" -- the end of their numbers -- and you want to translate into large number systems, you simply can't do it. See the problem?


from How The Urantia Book Came into Existence here:

http://urantiabook.org/archive/history/wssjr1.htm

is consistent with a communication I had as a child in a beautiful strange language that I was aware of my lack of fluency in during the experience and complete inability to translate into english afterwards. The only word I was ever satisfied with was GROW...not gonna get much of a revelation through me :lol:

More reading here:

The First Urantia Papers
http://urantiabook.org/archive/history/histumov.htm#thefirst

How We Got The Urantia Papers
http://urantiabook.org/archive/history/histumov.htm#wegot


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Moyer makes much of the fact that Dr. Sadler's history of the UB says that the papers were "completed and certified" in 1934 for parts I-III, and 1935 for part IV. But we know that changes continued to be made until (at least) 1942. Moyer argues that this, and other details, are evidence that the text was corrupted.

Corruptions to the Revelation

As I said, Moyer's views are extremely unpopular in the UB world. I don't really know what to make of them, but I don't think they can be dismissed without a serious hearing. His case rests upon the idea that Caligastia was able to corrupt the revelation by contacting Christy and pretending to be a Revelator. And he thinks that Dr. Sadler was so unprepared for this sort of thing that he fell for it.

My main problem with this theory is that if this were possible, the Revelators themselves would have been well aware of it. When they finally "signed off" they could and would have said in no uncertain terms that there would be no further communication from them, in any form, under any circumstances. They would have warned that anything that seemed to be communication from them should not be trusted.

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Yea I could see Big C contacting someone in the forum, but you would think that the people in the forum would only trust the "sleeping subject". Not to mention the thought adjuster of the sleeping subject played some role in trasmitting these paper's so the clarity coming from this "sleeping subject" would be much higher than it would from a 2nd hand communication between a person and any semi-cellestial. Afterall its not like the Big C could possess the mind of anyone, he could only be present and most of his power is gone, the most that anyone could probably hear from someone like him would be faint whisper's. I doubt the forum would trade faint whisper's for 1st hand transmission coming directly in coordination with the sleeping subject's thought adjuster.

Also the sheer power of the revelator's would probably be enough to scare Calagastia away, unless someone really wanted to be cursed by the presence of Calagastia I doubt he would even dare show up.Calagastia face's potential permanent execution at the hands of these being's, I bet he is petrified.

I doubt the translation was wrong though, these being's have an intellegence that is unimaginable, to us it would seem god like. I am sure the translation would be as easy as a task as writing down the number's 1, 2, 3. Not to mention you have being's that are trillion's of year's old if not imaginably older.....

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My main problem with the Urantia Book is that I wish there were an easier to read version. There would be a lot more readers of the Urantia Book if there were a version in simplified, contemporary English. This has been done for the Bible with the New Living Translation without compromising the essential meaning of the text.

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Yoder777 wrote:
My main problem with the Urantia Book is that I wish there were an easier to read version. There would be a lot more readers of the Urantia Book if there were a version in simplified, contemporary English. This has been done for the Bible with the New Living Translation without compromising the essential meaning of the text.


There is a condensed (and therefore simplified) outline called "The Story of Everything" written by Michelle Klimesh, look here:

http://www.bibles.org.uk

Scroll down to the section "The Story of Everything" and download it in PDF, ePub or MOBI (Kindle) formats. Or order a printed book at production cost (about $5).

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Last edited by tigran on Tue May 24, 2011 5:31 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Rajan C Mathew wrote:
Many of us who are readers of the Urantia Book are convinced about the super human authorship of the FER.
What are your personal points of conviction in favour of this?
Does this re-affirmation make any difference to us ?


My own personal point of conviction in favour of superhuman authorship of the Fifth Epochal Revelation (Urantia Papers) is due to the fact that many of the realities described in this book were part of my own personal spiritual experiences for many years prior to my discovery of the book's existence and certainly could not have been of human nature.

But please don't ask me what those experiences were as I understand discussing such things is against the rules of this forum (and is generally unwise anyway). I am merely answering your question and I believe my answer is strictly within the rules of this forum's rules for posting.

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tigran wrote:
But please don't ask me what those experiences were as I understand discussing such things is against the rules of this forum


viewforum.php?f=14

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Yoder777 wrote:
My main problem with the Urantia Book is that I wish there were an easier to read version. There would be a lot more readers of the Urantia Book if there were a version in simplified, contemporary English. This has been done for the Bible with the New Living Translation without compromising the essential meaning of the text.


I don't think the UB is so old that its English should be considered anything other than contemporary. Unlike the Bible, the UB in English is not a translation. The subject matter of the UB is considerably more complex than the subject matter of the Bible, so it's not possible to simplify it very much without distorting its meaning. However, it is possible to compress and summarize it, and that's what the Klimesh book attempts to do. I haven't read it. Malcolm Locke's The Urantia Revelation, which I have read, is another attempt at a condensed version of the UB, without sacrificing (much) meaning.

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boomshuka wrote:
Yea I could see Big C contacting someone in the forum, but you would think that the people in the forum would only trust the "sleeping subject".


The members of the Forum had no contact with the Sleeping Subject, only the Contact Commissioners (Dr. Sadler, Bill Sadler, Lena Sadler, Emma "Christy" Christensen, and Wilfrid Kellogg) did. Unfortunately, there's a lot of secrecy about this, but there's evidence that Christy did, at some point, claim to be getting messages from celestials, and that she was believed by the others. That's remarkable in itself. The larger question is whether this resulted in corruption in the UB text.

Of course, even if it did, it wouldn't affect the point about superhuman authorship, since Caligastia and his team are also superhumans.

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In discussion about the authorship of TUB we must look at all attempts of "celestials" to reach man.

First, there must be a certain criterium to the way the revelators reach man.
There must be a "state" or condition which the "sleeping subject" was ready to receive.

All through the ages man has claimed to "hear" the voice of God.

For such a one to receive the "translation" they must have been qualified by the "sender(s)".

Given the language barrier, from at least Uversa tongue to English tongue, the Revelators must have been trained to translate to our "subject".

For such a composition (beyond the imagination of man), to formulate into an (intended book), they had to work together (as a ministry) to be consistent through the whole compilation.

They knew what they were about.

And they knew (no matter how long it would take) what the potential it would have on mankind,
what the impact it would have on all of us readers.

In the ages to come, I believe, it will have established a foundation of congruent teaching that transforms the reader.

(As it has on myself).

But, we should not try to establish a specific religion from it.

Religion is personal and individual. (That is way I steer away from institutional religion and sects).

If the reader believes that TUB is authored by other than man then they have a "cosmic" revelation that they can share with all others in the universe(s).

So, we came from a world effected by rebellion (and default), but that gives us more of a chance to be intrusted with responsibilities early.

We, as readers, look forward to be Finaliters. That was never written in the "Bible".

The revelation will stand on it's own, for ages to come.

Put it through the test. Does it ring TRUE to you?

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Majestone wrote:
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For such a composition (beyond the imagination of man), to formulate into an (intended book), they had to work together (as a ministry) to be consistent through the whole compilation.

They knew what they were about.

And they knew (no matter how long it would take) what the potential it would have on mankind,
what the impact it would have on all of us readers.

In the ages to come, I believe, it will have established a foundation of congruent teaching that transforms the reader.

(As it has on myself).

But, we should not try to establish a specific religion from it.

Religion is personal and individual. (That is way I steer away from institutional religion and sects).

If the reader believes that TUB is authored by other than man then they have a "cosmic" revelation that they can share with all others in the universe(s).

So, we came from a world effected by rebellion (and default), but that gives us more of a chance to be intrusted with responsibilities early.

We, as readers, look forward to be Finaliters. That was never written in the "Bible".

The revelation will stand on it's own, for ages to come.

Put it through the test. Does it ring TRUE to you?


A sudden rush of tears in my eyes, reading this. Why?

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Guide Us Father to Live according to Your Plans !
http://rajan-c-mathew.blogspot.in


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Indeed the U.B is one of a kind, never has diety given information to mankind on urantia this way and probably never again will it happen, as we will eventually get teacher's.
I am cautous of people's claim's of talking to diety, even if they are true the event would likely only be like John's or Paul's and last just brief moment's. I noticed on the internet there are alot of fraud's pretending to talk to cellestial's and even in the u.b community. They appear to have long lenghty discussion's as well, however the info completely does not match the u.b. The u.b is unique (IMO) because even when the revelator's are just casually taling they use a way of speaking and language that is far advanced.

(IMO) it is a waste of time and potentially dangerous to go threw all the accounts of man supposidely talking to cellestial's. As you may fall for one of the million online cult's, where countless people sitting in their mom's basement are daydreaming conversation's with diety and writing out their thought's so they can start online cult's.

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ubizmo wrote:
boomshuka wrote:
Yea I could see Big C contacting someone in the forum, but you would think that the people in the forum would only trust the "sleeping subject".


The members of the Forum had no contact with the Sleeping Subject, only the Contact Commissioners (Dr. Sadler, Bill Sadler, Lena Sadler, Emma "Christy" Christensen, and Wilfrid Kellogg) did. Unfortunately, there's a lot of secrecy about this, but there's evidence that Christy did, at some point, claim to be getting messages from celestials, and that she was believed by the others. That's remarkable in itself. The larger question is whether this resulted in corruption in the UB text.

Of course, even if it did, it wouldn't affect the point about superhuman authorship, since Caligastia and his team are also superhumans.


I've not read any of the histories of it and never read up on it a bit until a couple weeks ago but the only mention I found on the web for "Christy Contacts" dates them from 1976 and after...well after publication. Is there something else?


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