Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:14 am +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:21 pm +0000
Posts: 87
hey guys im new! hi im jimmy. so i just have some questions id like for you guys to help me with and discuss for the purpose ofunderstanding TUB better. ok question one..

what is our galaxy in relation to TUB. is it a system, a constellation or a super universe? i know it breaks it down fairly simple in the first chapter by means of 10's (1,000.10,000.100,000 ect) its just that the galaxy is so big! can it fit all of orvonton in it or is simply spaced so perfectly that the system of satania and its 1000 worlds can all live perfectly inside.

my secound question is how much do you guys know about this new printing of TUb with the included Index! my friend discoverd somthing that was very disturbing about the most highs of edentia! it says they well knew of the rebellion in satania 500 years befor! it goes into further detail about their executive powers over the system! i know itsoounds crazy but he started to think they are responsible for it. i dont know i dont want to offend any one here but you guys should look into it.

so what do u guys think?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:55 pm +0000
Posts: 237
Dear Jimmy,

The UB gives the dimensions of our superuniverse Orvonton. The only problem is that there are so many interpretations to the dimensions that it is anyone's guess what the actual dimensions are or that is, how that should be interpreted. The Milky Way is about 100,000 light years across. We live in Orion's arm about 26,000 light years or so from the galactic center. (You will find varying estimates for the distance to the galactic center) Now, does each local universe have similar dimensions or do they vary according to the physical characteristics of each local universe? Is the size of each local universe 10,000 cubic light years or so? I don't know and I don't think that anyone can give you an accurate answer.

Now, there is a fellow here by the screen name I-am that has put a lot of thought into your question. I think that he believes that the Milky Way galaxy is a minor sector of the superuniverse of Orvonton. Again, it is anyone's guess whether that is so or not. Each local universe has 10,000 local systems. Each constellation is made up of 100 systems. The focal point of Nebadon is the physical center where our Mother Spirit and our Creator son resides. Our divine parents live on Salvington at the center of Nebadon. Each constellation has 100 systems that spin around it. In turn each of the 100 constellations with their 100 systems revolves around their physical center, Salvington. If there was a way to identify these systems you may be able to determine their relative distances and how long it takes those systems to swing around Salvington.

Notice what paper 41 has to say on the subject:

THE CHARACTERISTIC space phenomenon which sets off each local creation from all others is the presence of the Creative Spirit. All Nebadon is certainly pervaded by the space presence of the Divine Minister of Salvington, and such presence just as certainly terminates at the outer borders of our local universe. That which is pervaded by our local universe Mother Spirit is Nebadon; that which extends beyond her space presence is outside Nebadon, being the extra-Nebadon space regions of the superuniverse of Orvonton—other local universes.

41:0.2 While the administrative organization of the grand universe discloses a clear-cut division between the governments of the central, super-, and local universes, and while these divisions are astronomically paralleled in the space separation of Havona and the seven superuniverses, no such clear lines of physical demarcation set off the local creations. Even the major and minor sectors of Orvonton are (to us) clearly distinguishable, but it is not so easy to identify the physical boundaries of the local universes. This is because these local creations are administratively organized in accordance with certain creative principles governing the segmentation of the total energy charge of a superuniverse, whereas their physical components, the spheres of space—suns, dark islands, planets, etc.—take origin primarily from nebulae, and these make their astronomical appearance in accordance with certain precreative (transcendental) plans of the Architects of the Master Universe.

Paul


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:55 pm +0000
Posts: 237
Dear Jimmy,

Here is the appropriate quote from the UB.

53:2.3 No one ever suggested rebellion to Lucifer. The idea of self-assertion in opposition to the will of Michael and to the plans of the Universal Father, as they are represented in Michael, had its origin in his own mind. His relations with the Creator Son had been intimate and always cordial. At no time prior to the exaltation of his own mind did Lucifer openly express dissatisfaction about the universe administration. Notwithstanding his silence, for more than one hundred years of standard time the Union of Days on Salvington had been reflectivating to Uversa that all was not at peace in Lucifer's mind. This information was also communicated to the Creator Son and the Constellation Fathers of Norlatiadek.

I could not find the reference to 100 years of standard time. I don't know if that figure is equivalent to 500 earth years or not. I know that the comparisons are there, but I cannot find them as yet. The Union of Days is a Paradise representative or ambassador from Paradise that serves as an advisor to Christ Michael if asked to do. He was able to see what was occurring in Lucifer's mind and had reflectivated that information to Uversa. Uversa is the capital of the superuniverse of Orvonton. There are three Ancients of Days that rule over each superuniverse.

Also, this information was communicated to our Creator Son, Christ Michael and the Constellation Fathers of Norlatiadek. Satania is the local system that belongs to the constellation of Norlatiadek. The Constellation Fathers are also known as The Most Highs. Christ Michael and the Most Highs knew about the restlessness of Lucifer's mind for over 100 years of standard time.

Why didn't Michael or the Most Highs take action? Because we all have free will. That free will is a precious gift from our Paradise Father. If we did not have free will to choose either right or wrong we would be nothing more than slaves. These disquieting thoughts in Lucifer's head could have been resolved if he had just spoken openly about it. Rather than do that, he quietly stewed for over 100 years of standard time. Now, Christ Michael and the Most Highs knew about Lucifer's increasing disquiet. But they would not interfere with his plans even if those plans led to rebellion.

It sure is easy to go with the flow when everything is going smoothly. But, will we accept the Father's will for us and the plan for this universe when things have gone awry? Will the love in our hearts see us through? Lucifer needed to reflect on the unconditional love of the Paradise Father. Instead, he began to think that his mind was superior to all, even though his mind came from the Mother Spirit. Her mind in turn came from the Infinite Spirit. No matter where we have come and how far we have progressed we shall always be children in comparison to the Paradise Father.

By Christ Michael and the Most Highs allowing this rebellion it afforded us all the opportunity to demonstrate what is in our hearts. We are at an advantage, even though we are mortals of flesh and blood because a piece of the Eternal Father dwells in our minds. These Father fragments are there to show us the way even when things are not going well. As a matter of fact our lives have been foreordained. That is, our Father fragments knows everything about us. They have a plan laid out before us in this life and in the lives to come. But we can willingly reject that plan if we want to. But if we willingly accept the plan that our Father fragments have laid out for us we will increasingly become more like the Father.

What path will we take? Will we listen to the machinations of Lucifer or will we listen to the music that sings to our souls as provided by our Father fragments? As much evil as has been perpetrated in Satania, there has been far more good produced. The wisdom of Christ Michael and the Most Highs come shining through. They did not have a hair trigger temper that would strike at the least provocation. No, they wisely allowed the Lucifer rebellion to play out, and as a result, more beauty than they ever could have imagined has been produced.

Paul


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:00 pm +0000
Posts: 698
Location: Savannah GA
Hi Jim !

Welcome to TruthBook Forums!

It’s awesome to have you here and you asked a really good question about the rebellion. I don’t think I can give you a better answer than Paul did… From what I read, they knew that Lucifer was heading down the road to trouble, but they chose not to act on it for the same reasons they let us do what we want in out lives… we all get to choose our own destiny, from the least of us, like you and me, to the mighty Sons of God, like Lucifer.

And I believe what Paul said about the unintended consequences of the rebellion working out better than anyone could have imagined is true too. That the good produced out of the shambles of the rebellion outweighs the bad by some overwhelming margin. And I furthermore submit that this applies even to our own dark and disorganized world.

I think that in the long run, being from a planet on the “wrong side of the “tracks” will make us some of the luckiest beings in the universe! After all, the authors state that the more experience one can garner, the more we contribute to the Supreme. And you can’t get much further away from perfection than we are on this asylum of a world! They even got a name for people like us “agondonters”. It means we have been rebellion tested and found true. It’s a real cosmic bade of distinction, and one we should wear proudly.

Just my take…

Again, welcome!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:10 am +0000
Posts: 1945
Welcome Jim. :)

Here’s a passage from The Urantia Book, indicating that we must be fallible to be free. Free-will implies the possibility of mistaken judgment (evil). And our quarantined (agondonter) status requires us to believe without seeing, which is a uniquely human experience, unknown to e.g. the perfect, infallible inhabitants of the Havona worlds, who were born perfect:
Quote:
3:5.15 Throughout the universe, every unit is regarded as a part of the whole. Survival of the part is dependent on co-operation with the plan and purpose of the whole, the wholehearted desire and perfect willingness to do the Father's divine will. The only evolutionary world without error (the possibility of unwise judgment) would be a world without free intelligence. In the Havona universe there are a billion perfect worlds with their perfect inhabitants, but evolving man must be fallible if he is to be free. Free and inexperienced intelligence cannot possibly at first be uniformly wise. The possibility of mistaken judgment (evil) becomes sin only when the human will consciously endorses and knowingly embraces a deliberate immoral judgment.

3:5.16 The full appreciation of truth, beauty, and goodness is inherent in the perfection of the divine universe. The inhabitants of the Havona worlds do not require the potential of relative value levels as a choice stimulus; such perfect beings are able to identify and choose the good in the absence of all contrastive and thought-compelling moral situations. But all such perfect beings are, in moral nature and spiritual status, what they are by virtue of the fact of existence. They have experientially earned advancement only within their inherent status. Mortal man earns even his status as an ascension candidate by his own faith and hope. Everything divine which the human mind grasps and the human soul acquires is an experiential attainment; it is a reality of personal experience and is therefore a unique possession in contrast to the inherent goodness and righteousness of the inerrant personalities of Havona.

3:5.17 The creatures of Havona are naturally brave, but they are not courageous in the human sense. They are innately kind and considerate, but hardly altruistic in the human way. They are expectant of a pleasant future, but not hopeful in the exquisite manner of the trusting mortal of the uncertain evolutionary spheres. They have faith in the stability of the universe, but they are utter strangers to that saving faith whereby mortal man climbs from the status of an animal up to the portals of Paradise. They love the truth, but they know nothing of its soul-saving qualities. They are idealists, but they were born that way; they are wholly ignorant of the ecstasy of becoming such by exhilarating choice. They are loyal, but they have never experienced the thrill of wholehearted and intelligent devotion to duty in the face of temptation to default. They are unselfish, but they never gained such levels of experience by the magnificent conquest of a belligerent self. They enjoy pleasure, but they do not comprehend the sweetness of the pleasure escape from the pain potential.

So, the results of the Lucifer rebellion may provide the Supreme with unique experience of the free will choice of human mortals to do God’s will. Thus, we seem to be a divine experiment at the frontline of creation. Nevertheless, by definition, any experiment can fail..

Just my 2 cents.. :)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:21 pm +0000
Posts: 87
wow thanks guys! its good when people can explain stuff to me because i get overwhelmed reading TUb its freakin confusings somtimes! i agree with what you guys have said about the rebellion. the fact that we still have billions of God loving people on this planet with out seeing or expeirenceing what other humans do on normal worlds is the greatness beyond mesure! as far as my first question goes i do like like what bart has been saying! but im not going to worry about much more any way.. but i will still always love cosmology and such. one quick thing i do love about TUB is in a couple (more prolly) spots the authors simple say some things are beyond their own knowledge! its comferting to know we arnt the only ones in the universes who still figureing stuff out haha. any way thanks again i will have more questions and stuff soon! cya!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:14 am +0000
Posts: 284
Location: India
You explained it well, Paul.

_________________
Rajan C Mathew, India.
Guide Us Father to Live according to Your Plans !
http://rajan-c-mathew.blogspot.in


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:35 am +0000
Posts: 562
Yes, well done Paul, thank you. :smile:


Colter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: Google [Bot], Google Feedfetcher


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group