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 Post subject: Age of Nebadon
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I've been reading through the first part of the UB a lot lately, and I found some thought-provoking paragraphs in paper 22 regarding our local universe of Nebadon.

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(245.4) 22:2.4 The senior Mighty Messengers were chosen from those ascendant mortals of time and space who were among the earlier Paradise arrivals, many having traversed Havona in the times of Grandfanda. But the first trinitizing of Mighty Messengers was not effected until the candidate corps contained representatives from each of the seven superuniverses. And the last group of this order to qualify on Paradise embraced ascendant pilgrims from the local universe of Nebadon.


How amazing that out of the 700,000 local universes in the 7 superuniverses, ours was the last to provide suitable candidates to be trinitized as senior Mighty Messengers! That also means that Nebadon was the first local universe in our entire superuniverse of Orvonton to provide suitable candidates, because the first trinitization was being held up until Orvonton was represented.

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(246.3) 22:3.2 Seventy thousand of Those High in Authority are trinitized at each Trinity liaison. Though the local universe of Nebadon is a comparatively young creation, it has representatives among a recently trinitized class of this order.


This quote states that Nebadon is "comparatively young". Compared to the rest of the local universes in the other 6 superuniverses, perhaps, but within our own superuniverse it seems likely that Nebadon is one of the oldest local universes because it was the first to provide suitable senior Mighty Messengers. Perhaps this also means that our superuniverse is younger than all the others.

Another consideration - our Creator Son only recently completed his bestowal missions. Keeping in mind that we might be one of the oldest local universes in our superuniverses, perhaps Christ Michael was one of the first in our superuniverse to complete his bestowals.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

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 Post subject: Re: Age of Nebadon
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From The Urantia Book Timeline at http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=2314

400,000,000,000 B.C. - The Michael and local universe Mother Spirit of Nebadon select the disintegrating Andronover nebula as the site of their adventure in universe building. - (The Urantia Book, 119:0.7; 57:3.8)


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Nebadon
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lwatkins wrote:
From The Urantia Book Timeline at http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=2314

400,000,000,000 B.C. - The Michael and local universe Mother Spirit of Nebadon select the disintegrating Andronover nebula as the site of their adventure in universe building. - (The Urantia Book, 119:0.7; 57:3.8)


Thanks, but I'm more interested in the age of Nebadon as it relates to the rest of creation. I came across another statement in paper 23 that implies a younger age for Orvonton in comparison to the other 6 superuniverses:

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23:2.10 There is no limitation upon the service of Solitary Messengers in the superuniverses; they may function as executioners of the high tribunals or as intelligence gatherers for the good of the realm. Of all the supercreations they most delight to serve in Orvonton because here the need is greatest and the opportunities for heroic effort are greatly multiplied. In the more needy realms we all enjoy the satisfaction of a more replete function.


I don't recall whether the UB gives any comparative timeline for the creation of each of the superuniverses. Perhaps someone can help me out with that. If they were all created at the same time, then it would seem that ours is "behind" in relation to the others. Perhaps there was an early rebellion - long before life became widely established. And if we consider this possibility along with the fact that our local universe of Nebadon was the first (out of all the other local universes in Orvonton) to provide suitable candidates for the first senior Mighty Messenger corps, we can conjecture two scenarios:

1 - Nebadon was the first local universe in Orvonton to harbor life, but suffered a rebellion early on.

2 - Nebadon was not the first local universe in Orvonton to harbor life, but the others suffered a rebellion early on.

Does anyone else get what I'm trying to say here?

To put it as simply as possible: Nebadon is ahead of all the other local universes in Orvonton, but Orvonton as a whole is behind the other superuniverses - why?

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 Post subject: Re: Age of Nebadon
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Kiwirich,

I agree with you that Orvonton could be the last superuniverse created. It is numbered 7 which is the last. Now, I think you misassumed from the first quote you wrote that the first representative of the Mighty Messengers corps from Orvonton is from Nebadon. The last sentence of that quote is only saying that among the last group or the most recently trinitized into the corps embraced representatives from Nebadon. Hope this help a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Nebadon
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YSMAEL wrote:
Kiwirich,

I agree with you that Orvonton could be the last superuniverse created. It is numbered 7 which is the last. Now, I think you misassumed from the first quote you wrote that the first representative of the Mighty Messengers corps from Orvonton is from Nebadon. The last sentence of that quote is only saying that among the last group or the most recently trinitized into the corps embraced representatives from Nebadon. Hope this help a bit.


That's correct, but earlier in the quote it states that they were waiting for each superuniverse to be represented within the Mighty Messenger group before commencing with trinitization. Surely if there were already representatives present from another local universe in Orvonton, that would count as representing superuniverse #7, and there would be no need for them to wait for someone from Nebadon...? See what I mean? Correct me if I'm wrong...

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 Post subject: Re: Age of Nebadon
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And there was no statement saying they were waiting for someone from Nebadon.


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Nebadon
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YSMAEL wrote:
And there was no statement saying they were waiting for someone from Nebadon.


Yes, and so it seems that the criteria awaiting fulfillment was superuniverse representation - not local universe representation. Am I correct to surmise from this that Nebadon is probably one of the oldest local universes in Orvonton? Or that if any other local universes within Orvonton are older than Nebadon - they must have had some kind of setback such as rebellion - retarding their ability to provide suitable candidates for the senior Mighty Messenger corp?

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 Post subject: Re: Age of Nebadon
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I don't see any hint that Nebadon is one of the oldest Local universe within Orvonton. In fact the once organized Andronover nebula which subsequently emerged to become part of our local universe was numbered 876,926 which means is it 876926th nebula in Orvonton and that also means it is relatively new in Orvonton.


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Nebadon
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YSMAEL wrote:
I don't see any hint that Nebadon is one of the oldest Local universe within Orvonton. In fact the once organized Andronover nebula which subsequently emerged to become part of our local universe was numbered 876,926 which means is it 876926th nebula in Orvonton and that also means it is relatively new in Orvonton.


Do you agree that Nebadon appears to be the first local universe in Orvonton to contribute candidates for the senior Mighty Messenger corps? If so, how do we explain this? Why was Nebadon so far ahead in that regard, if it isn't particularly old within Orvonton?

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 Post subject: Re: Age of Nebadon
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No I don't agree that Nebadon appears to be the first local universe in Orvonton that contribute to the Mighty messenger corps and it does not say that in the UB. You only assumed that based on your apparent misunderstanding of the first quote you made. Please go over read that quote again and you'll see that the last sentence has nothing to do with the earlier statements. The last sentence stands on it own and only stating that the most recent candidates for trinitization embraced some personalities coming from Nebadon. Hope this clears some misunderstanding.


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Nebadon
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YSMAEL wrote:
No I don't agree that Nebadon appears to be the first local universe in Orvonton that contribute to the Mighty messenger corps and it does not say that in the UB. You only assumed that based on your apparent misunderstanding of the first quote you made. Please go over read that quote again and you'll see that the last sentence has nothing to do with the earlier statements. The last sentence stands on it own and only stating that the most recent candidates for trinitization embraced some personalities coming from Nebadon. Hope this clears some misunderstanding.


The last sentence begins with "And", which implies continuation from the previous sentence. In the previous sentence it is stated that trinitization did not occur until there were representatives from each of the 7 superuniverses. Is there any reason to believe that there was a lag time between the point when all 7 superuniverses being represented, and the point when the personalities from Nebadon were added?

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 Post subject: Re: Age of Nebadon
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Okay, let me make it clearer. There was no trinitization of the first group until all superuniverses were represented. So the first group of trinitization included representative from Orvonton and most probably not from Nebadon. But the LAST group or the most recent trinitization included some from Nebadon. I hope that makes more sense now.


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Nebadon
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YSMAEL wrote:
Okay, let me make it clearer. There was no trinitization of the first group until all superuniverses were represented. So the first group of trinitization included representative from Orvonton and most probably not from Nebadon. But the LAST group or the most recent trinitization included some from Nebadon. I hope that makes more sense now.


Ah, I see. That makes sense now. And for it to be noteworthy that the most recent trinitization included people from Nebadon means that it may well have been the first time such people have participated in a Mighty Messenger trinitization.

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 Post subject: Re: Age of Nebadon
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And it also make sense that Nebadon could be one of the youngest local universe of the youngest superuniverse. I'm glad we made some progress in this study.


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Nebadon
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YSMAEL wrote:
And it also make sense that Nebadon could be one of the youngest local universe of the youngest superuniverse. I'm glad we made some progress in this study.


Yes, thanks for your input. :smile:

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