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 Post subject: Size of a Super-Universe
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Hi, my name is Michael G. and I have a question about the Urantia Book. I have been reading the Book for seven years now, and have completed it three times. One thing bugs me, however, and I am hoping it is my lack of astrnomical knowledge that is impeding me rather than lack of information in the Urantia Book. So, without furthur ado... my question.
Let me mention that all quotes are from the truthbook.com downloadable Urantia Book.

My question, simply, it this: What constitutes a super-universe? Is a single galaxy a super-universe? Or can several galaxys be part of the same super-universe? I submit the following quotes from the U-Book, the format being [paper # : sub-topic # : paragraph #]

*beginning of 1st quote* *emphasis added*
[12:1.6] The Seven Superuniverses are not primary physical organizations; nowhere do their boundaries
divide a nebular family, neither do they cross a local universe, a prime creative unit. Each superuniverse
is simply a geographic space clustering of approximately one seventh of the organized and partially
inhabited post-Havona creation, and each is about equal in the number of local universes embraced and
in the space encompassed. Nebadon, your local universe, is one of the newer creations in Orvonton, the
seventh superuniverse.

*beginning of 2nd quote* *emphasis added*
[15:3.1] Practically all of the starry realms visible to the naked eye on Urantia belong to the seventh
section of the grand universe, the superuniverse of Orvonton. The vast Milky Way starry system
represents the central nucleus of Orvonton, being largely beyond the borders of your local universe.
This
great aggregation of suns, dark islands of space, double stars, globular clusters, star clouds, spiral and
other nebulae, together with myriads of individual planets, forms a watchlike, elongated-circular
grouping of about one seventh of the inhabited evolutionary universes.

*beginning of third quote* *emphasis added*
[32:2.11] The Satania system of inhabited worlds is far removed from Uversa and that great sun cluster
which functions as the physical or astronomic center of the seventh superuniverse. From Jerusem, the
headquarters of Satania, it is over two hundred thousand light-years to the physical center of the
superuniverse of Orvonton, far, far away in the dense diameter of the Milky Way.


*beginning of 4th quote* *emphasis added*
[42:5.5] They emanate in the largest quantities from the densest plane
of the superuniverse, the Milky Way, which is also the densest plane of the outer universes.

So.... can anyone shed a little light on the subject? It is admittedly my own ignorance which fosters the need for this question, but still I appreciate whatever information you can give me, as well as thoughts and opionins. Thank you ahead of time,

Michael G.

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The science of today does not recognise distinctions between grand or super universes. Let alone the idea of seven "sections" or distinctions.

I'm not sure the UB gives enough info to infer and answer and if it did we would have no means to verify. I think that once we can reach out that far as a species, we will have already unknown universal circuits re-initialized on Urantia.

Bill

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I am willing to bet by some time tomorrow some one will have a map and diagram up here for you to see just how big the known universe is according to the U.B.

But to put it simply, our universe that our Best telescopes have yet been able to make out is still bigger that n we have yet seen, and our is mad up of many clusters of galaxy's that qualify as universes but small ones, and they all are in the rotational swing of a Grand universe which is one of 7.

I made a lot more sense if you see it in a painting or well done graph.

I am going to try and post a link to one of the best in my opinion painting of our relation ship to the grand universe

http://www.truthbook.com/images/gallery ... e_1024.jpg

hope it worked.


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Hi Michael G,

Good question, I've pondered it too, and came to the conclusion the superuniverse is composed of little more than an organizing mass of material with arbitrary borders. The so called Milky Way is at the center of the 7th SU, but there is a mix of nebula and wandering, disrupted galaxies combining and reforming all of Orvonton. I have to keep in mind the SU level is in the early stages of development.

Not sure how accurate or how aligned with the teachings this graphic is, but it's worth a look to those curious about cosmic geography:

http://antifan-real.deviantart.com/art/Master-Universe-Map-130193355 Artist's Concept of the Master Universe

Rick


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GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

Hi, Al here… GREAT QUESTION! SUPER-UNIVERSES! HOW COOL IS THAT!

So, you ask, “What is a Super-Universe???” Well, here’s my take:

From what I can gather, we here on this little ol’ planet are out on the fringes of super-universe number 7. WAAAAAAY out on the fringes. And, as the big old super-universe 7 SLOWLY swings around in it’s rotation, the position of our little corner of this universe is currently (for the next billion years or so) positioned such that it is facing OUTWARD into the uncharted and yet unrealized and slowly evolving layers of the outer universes (there are, if you believe the authors, 4 of these layers).

So what we see as we peer out with our telescopes and other such devices, and will continue to see for the foreseeable future is:

1. Looking inward, we see look into the center of super-universe number 7 (the milky way). This is habituated space.
2. Looking outward, we see the uninhabited evolving layers of the outer universes.
3. Looking sideways, we see a bit of both (our super-universe and the outer universes). Based on the position of our super universe in comparison to the other super-universes, it is doubtful that we see much of the adjacent super-universes… the angle is most likely too extreme (picture 7 spiral galaxies spinning around a central point and you see what I mean).

So, you are asking, where is all this going? Well, I stated this background to bring things into perspective, as it were.

My take on the super-universes is that they are big, really BIG yet discrete spiral conglomerations of stars. Looking out into what the authors tell us is the evolving universes, we see lots of these things in the making. When we look into the Milky Way, which the authors tell us is the center of our super-universe, we (today’s Scientists), even now can understand what we are on the fringes of an enormous spiral universe. And I think that the other super-universes are also discrete though gigantic spiral conglomerations of stars.

What is harder for me to picture is the form (if there is one) of the discrete Local Universes which make up the super-universe!

I believe that our scientists have a much better understanding of our position within the super-universe of Orvonton than they do of the surrounding outer layers of the uninhabited evolving universes. And this is because of the fact that we are, being a part of a super-universe, (relatively) stationary within our super-universe. This makes things much easier to understand! However, when we look outwards and away from the super-universe, we see an immediate outer layer which is actually rotating in the OPPOSITE direction from the swing of the 7 Super-Universes. And then it’s anyone’s guess which way the individual evolving universes within the first layer are rotating (I think the opposite direction which Orvonton is rotating, as I believe Orvonton is rotating in the opposite direction from the rotation of the 7 Super Universes, as they swing around the inner universe and Paradise). So all this gets very confusing, and leads to all kinds of wonderful theories.

Did that help?

Al


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Hi everyone, I just want to thank all those who have posted on this subject, as it has truly helped me to better understand the dimensions of the super-universes. I especially liked that artist rendition of the super universe, as it was GORGEOUS!!! It is nice to finally be able to get answers to these questions, and to speak to other people who read/believe the Urantia Book is a revelation of the Universal Father. Thank you all!!!

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Hi Michael and welcome to our forum! This has been my all time fav for images that made it really clear for me...

http://www.ubhistory.org/Documents/PA19 ... ter_04.pdf

I have this original Agondonter and Chick did a amazing job. I've also seen the original at a conference once...

Happy 2010!

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Forgive my ignorance... I am a newbie and big words make me feel even more ignorant LOL..
So here goes...

12:1.6] The Seven Superuniverses are not primary physical organizations;
Doesnt this mean that it is not physical?nowhere do their boundaries
divide a nebular family, neither do they cross a local universe, a prime creative unit. Each superuniverse
is simply a geographic space clustering of approximately one seventh of the organized and partially
inhabited post-Havona creation,
Doesnt this mean that the physical part that we could see if we had the ability would only be the creation part of that Universe?and each is about equal in the number of local universes embraced and
in the space encompassed. Nebadon, your local universe, is one of the newer creations in Orvonton, the
seventh superuniverse.


I would think that what constitutes a Super Universe cannot be determined by any ability we may ever have...

That which is Real cannot be destroyed ..... Therefore what we see or can identify would only be a reflected fraction of what actually IS....

If what we have the ability to identify is only 1 - 7th of each Super Universe and they are clustered together and even still being compared in equal amounts to what we have in our own Universe which is already overwhelming ...then what we cannot see is 6 times that plus 49 times that... Not great at math but neither am I very good at imagining what I cannot see....

I dont think we we have the capacity to imagine such a vastness considering we have trouble comprehending what our telescopes have revealed as it is...

LOL....

Ill take this as my personal homework ....I will definatly read over these papers again and again...
However, You have read the book a number of times and have yet to find what constitutes a Super Universe I would think if anyone could have been able to grasp even an idea would be someone who has read it multiple times...

It would make since that what you seek cannot be revealed in a book...

It is possible we haven't even the capacity to imagine such a reality... Idk???
Thinking out loud as I do often....

...love...


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Quote:
12:1.6] The Seven Superuniverses are not primary physical organizations;
Doesnt this mean that it is not physical?


I am so relieved that someone else has asked this question. That has stuck in my mind while everyone (who has a mind geared for this, which mine is not) tries to figure out where it is.

...just wondering.

Welcome to the forum, iamuurme

And Peace!
Jo

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Hi iamuurme!

Ignorance? IGNORANCE??? My friend, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHEDDING SOME MUCH NEEDED LIGHT UPON THIS SUBJECT!

Quote:
12:1.6] The Seven Superuniverses are not primary physical organizations;


I must have read that sentence, but ya know, it never registered!

THANK YOU!

You have given me something delightful to ponder!

Al


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Trying to get my mind in tune with this subject I did a search here at TB for superuniverses and wow...there is alot to read there...more later...

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Happy New Year to all,

Welcome to TruthBook Mike G. These links may be helpful to you.

http://www.squarecircles.com/articles/beckner/starsgalaxies.htm

http://www.ubastronomy.com/topics.php

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/index.html

Jim :smile:


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You know about dark matter? They say that physical matter is only like 2 % of all creation. Scientist say that the Universe is made up mostly of dark matter, which we cant see.... neat, huh?

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bulldog wrote:

.WOW!!! Feeling rather Tiny today... :roll: thanks for the links ...


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Local "universes" and superuniverses are more like political boundaries rather than physical boundaries. Most countries' borders are determined by mountains and bodies of water, but there is some political issues involved with national borders. Use that as your reference when thinking about the universes and superuniverses in the UB.

Thus, the common picture of seven distinct universes circling Paradise is wrong.

Bulldog's links are good for resolving the issues between our current astronomy and the UB. Also note that terms like "galaxy" were only starting to be used in the 1930s.

I believe that the dark matter and dark energy that science believes exists due to how the grand universe is expanding is some of the energies that the UB claims exists but are currently unknown to Urantia scientists.


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