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 Post subject: Words and Swords
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Dear Friends, One and All,

I have not been able to be here for some time yesterday and today, and stopped by to see what was going on, and it was like being hit in the face...so much acrimony and hard words being thrown around - on several threads.

It is disheartening, to say the least, to see how quickly things can start to spin out of control. People get hurt, and they leave because they feel misunderstood and attacked. And reading some of the posts here, I am not surprised by this reaction.

Some of you are so smart, and so knowledegable - but it is as if you have a need to bludgeon even new readers with "the truth." There is high-handedness and sarcasm, and downright meanness going on. Imagine what lurkers think when they see us squabbling among ourselves this way...and we do have lurkers - make no mistake. We are being watched, and our attitudes and actions are coloring the perceptions of those we most want to be a part of our brotherhood.

I feel the most dismay when I see a reader like Amy feel she has to leave us because we have not been of service to her...it is painful to see that. And Mr Shakita - he is one of the most eloquent and expressive writers on this forum. So, if his heart is offended by the words of Jesus that were paraphrased in The Urantia Book, so what? Is that a crime against God? I don't think so. He had an honest and heartfelt reaction to those particular words. He did not deserve to be dumped on as he was. The Urantia Book is not a sacred text.

Those of us who are long-time reader/believers/students have an obligation to portray the Master's teachings in our demeanor and our words as best we can. I have said this before, but maybe it needs re-saying: this forum is not like sitting face-to-face over a cup of coffee and discussing the book. We are all faceless, many times nameless entities who may or may not be who we say we are. We lack facial cues, we lack eye-contact, we have only words on a screen. We must remember that our words have power - the only power in this kind of forum - so we must take care with them, and use them well. Please - be kind. We can disagree without being disagreeable. Sometimes, the WAY something is said is more important that WHAT is being said. Sarcasm, especially, is out of place here, unless you know the other person well, and know they will understand it, and not be hurt by it.

http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1408#U156_5_18

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Tact is the fulcrum of social leverage, and tolerance is the earmark of a great soul. If you possess these rare and charming gifts, as the days pass you will become more alert and expert in your worthy efforts to avoid all unnecessary social misunderstandings. Such wise souls are able to avoid much of the trouble which is certain to be the portion of all who suffer from lack of emotional adjustment, those who refuse to grow up, and those who refuse to grow old gracefully.


I hope that we can all start fresh, and try to mend our fences, and embrace the differences in each other. Many of us have had hard times - many of us have overcome a lot in this life - and yet many of us have impatience with those who have not yet been able to overcome, but who are looking for help. It is a hard journey, this life - harder for some than for others. Everyone is facing a challenge, everyone has a cross to bear. Please, let's not make it harder for those who come here looking for rest and inspiration. Let's not chase them away under the guise of telling them the "truth." There are ways, and there are ways to exhibit truth...

Measure your words, and put yourself in the shoes of the one who will be receiving your posts. Will it make them happy? Inspired? Angry? Resentful? Will it help them know God better, will it help them love Jesus more? Will it completely turn them off The Urantia Book for good?

Sorry to run on, but this latest spate of meanness and bitter exchanges just cried out for something...imperfect as I am, I just had to try and help somehow. I hope I have, and not hurt...

Much Love to All...


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As a P.S. to MaryJo's post -- few people post; many people read. This discussion board gets about 7,500 visits per month. You're not simply talking to whomever it is you're replying to or commenting on. Consider Jesus' exhortation: Be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves.


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 Post subject: Are you Jesus?
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Are You Jesus?

A few years ago a group of salesmen went to a regional sales convention in Chicago. They had assured their wives that they would be home in plenty of time for Friday night 's dinner. In their rush, with tickets and briefcases, one of these salesmen inadvertently kicked over a table which held a display of apples, and apples flew everywhere. Without stopping or looking back, they all managed to reach the plane in time for their nearly missed boarding. ALL BUT ONE!!! He paused, took a deep breath, got in touch with his feelings, and experienced a twinge of compassion for the girl whose apple stand had just been overturned. He told his buddies to go on without him, waved good-bye, told one of them to call his wife when they arrived at their home destination and explain his taking a later flight.

Then he returned to the terminal where the apples were all over the terminal floor. He was so glad he did, the 16-year-old girl working the apple stand was totally blind! She was softly crying, tears running down her cheeks in frustration, and at the same time helplessly groping for her spilled produce as the crowd swirled about her, no one stopping and no one to care for her plight. The salesman knelt on the floor with her, gathered up the apples, put them back on the table and helped organize her display. As he did this, he noticed that many of them had become battered and bruised; these he set aside in another basket.

When he had finished, he pulled out his wallet and said to the girl, “Here, please take this $40 for the damage we did. Are you okay?” She nodded through her tears. He continued on with, “I hope we didn't spoil your day too badly.” As the salesman started to walk away, the bewildered blind girl called out to him, “Mister.....” He paused and turned to look back into those blind eyes . She continued, “Are you Jesus?” He stopped in mid-stride, and he wondered. Then slowly he made his way to catch the later flight with that question burning and bouncing about in his soul: Are you Jesus?

Do people mistake you for Jesus? That's our destiny, is it not? To be so much like Jesus that people cannot tell the difference as we live and interact with a world that is blind to His love, life and grace.

If we claim to know Him, we should live, love and act as he would.
Knowing Him is more than simply quoting Scripture or going to church.
It's actually living life as Jesus would, and treating others as Jesus did.
We are the apple of His eye, even though, we too, have been bruised by a fall.

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Remember to show compassion as we “Pass by”. We are all “His Children”.


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Mary-Jo, Larry and Bulldog (Jim)

Thank you all for your positive comments and compassion for All here. May God Bless and Guide us and bring love for one another to our hearts.

God Bless and guide us All.

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Good morning group,

Great story Bulldog, thanks!


Dear Maryjo,

I am glad that you are here. I have carefully read your comments and I have some feedback to offer of my own. You defend Paul's opinion so be you defending of mine, please.

Everyone is correct about supporting, recommending and defending righteousness. No-brainer there okay?

But this is our real world and not everything always goes according to plan or intention. That's life. Still with me here folks?

Paul's post might have been acceptable if he posted it as a stand alone commentary in the Speeches and Essays Forum, however his comments even placed there by themselves would deserve rebuttal.

This is a discussion board Maryjo and "discussion" clearly implies multiple participation. For you to suggest that it is improper for someone to respond, even negatively, to something someone says is farcical and incredulous. There can be no (discussion) unless a at least one 2nd person joins in with additional comments.

Do you (Maryjo or Larry) now wish to suggest creating a new rule which states no one is allowed to offer a "negative type" response to anything that anybody says? No? Then please stop challenging us to do this very thing.


Here is the problem at this site....and I beg the staff to not delete or edit these comments. If anyone does, it is a cover up of problems and discredits everyone's service here.


Maryjo I think I've told you this story privately in the past but I will repeat it for everyone's information. Perhaps the majority of the current active membership does not know these things.

Looking at the memberlist, only two currently active persons have been here longer than myself, and them only by a month or two. This goes back to September 2003, so suffice it to say that I am one of the senior members here...a charter member if you will. Pretty much everything that has occurred on this discussion forum since its inception, I have seen it.

When the forum opened, one of the sweetest ladies in the whole wide world, Paula Thompson, was working at the Jesusonian Foundation and I guess she was tasked with overseeing this forum.

There were NO rules or posting guidelines at all. Paula figured, and reasonably at that: "This is the about The Urantia Book, this is serious and even pious stuff....this site will surely attract intelligent and responsible adults who will.....behave themselves....and just engage in serious and responsible conversations regarding this superlative subject matter." I paraphrase the above of course. The meaning is accurate though.

So off we go and here comes the wide-open access of everyone to the internet. Low and behold, mischief-makers and other contrary types show up and indeed cause real trouble. Those caring persons among us reach out to Paula in assistance and relate.....hey....ah....we gotta do something about this. You can't let so and so say that and do this ect.....We must develop and implement some posting rules. Paula sees this, conducts some research into what other similar forums are doing, and presents a beginning set of posting policy for the site.

So then came the rules. Nothing changed. The mischief-makers ignore them.

Low and behold.....the rules must be enforced! Imagine that. Y'all still here with me folks?

But sweet dear Paula doesn't much have it in her to play or perform the role of disciplinarian on a spiritual discussion board where such a thing shouldn't even be necessary...but it is.

I had been speaking with her continuously about all of this as I was all fired up about finding what I thought was a great UB site and a awesome idea. I relate to Paula that I have previous experience participating on discussion forums of this type and have seen several be essentially destroyed by mischief-makers, and I volunteer to assist her. And so I became the first Moderator on this site and led the Open Forum for quite a while.

True to mischief-maker form....the mischief makers just move their mischief making to other forums that have no assigned moderator, with Paula still not wanting to be a cop on the board....so I volunteer further and begin overseeing the entire forum, although being unannounced about it.....I performed the moderating functions on the rest of the forums and behind the scenes. This situation lasted for a while but some observant members concluded that Paula wasn't performing the rules enforcement that was going on, because they knew it was not her style to do so. So it was decided that I would be named Admin of the site and just do the job openly.

And so I served this site as Admin for about a year and a half or so. I enforced the rules. You simply did not witness this crazyiness and inappropriate posting that we witness here during...this administration. Oh it happened. It happened lots and lots. But I enforced the rules and fixed it. When absolutely uncooperative persons went nutz with their mischief-making....they were shown the door. The board looked good and looked good all the time. There were no rules violations or crazy talk to be found. The board likewise looked good all the time to our guest lurkers as some people call them.

Was everyone happy? No. But the unhappy ones were only the mischief-makers themselves who were all steamed up that they couldn't treat this site like they owned it and could come here and dump their trash at will. I felt so sorry for them boo hoo. I likened the situation to speeders in traffic who were mad because a police officer was on duty, pulled them over and wrote them a ticket for breaking the law. Boo hoo again.

Then one day I show up as usual and the board is a blank. Empty. Everything erased. I am shocked. I write Paula.....what happened? She says she decided to erase the board and just start over as kind of a "zen" thing. Her exact words. A couple of weeks go by....Paula relates that the previous material could be restored but that would require deleting everything that had been posted during those two "new" weeks, and she she....didn't want to do it. Her decision stood. This is what she told me and I have no reason to lie about it or present any different of a story.

Two whole years of everyone's work here, including many hundreds of posts of mine own were gone. Lot's of folks were very upset about this and I was upset about this. I told Paula this was an unbelievable mistake and somebody's head had to roll. So I volunteered to step down. I offered up my head to roll. If Paula wanted to dump what we had and go in a different direction.....well she was in charge and that was her choice. But I disagreed with it and went on being a regular member as I am today.

If it were not for this incident, I would probably still be serving here as Board Admin......and the membership would, in my opinion, still be benefiting from have a "good looking" board without all of this crazyiness and rules violations and every other undesirable aspects of operations that are witnessed today. Because I enforced the rules for the benefit of the sincere learners and users, and because I must love the site and the mission and purpose which it stands for. Must really love the place elsewise I would hardly stick around and witness all this.....crap....and continue to try to stick to a personal mission of assisting other sincere reader-believers.

And so the problem is :: ??

With all due respect, ...[Comments deleted by admin] ...I see no other explanation. Mischief-makers will make their mischief as long as they feel they can or are getting away with it. And getting away with it they are. Give some an inch and they'll take a mile.

And there is an additional feature of "crazy talk." There are those who post "crazy" stuff. Stuff that is wholly inappropriate yet doesn't quite break an existing rule or posting guideline. The crazy talk needs to be mitigated just as the straight-up rule breaking does. And yes, this is a judgment call on the part of staff....but someone has to do it.

For everyone's sake, please begin enforcing the rules....which are reasonable and ordinary....and enforce them quickly, fairly, equally and without any bias. And while you're at it, close the board for a few weeks and go back through every post on the site and correct past problems. What is on the board is on the board. And if "bad stuff" is on the board....it needs to go. Restore and maintain order.

That, or wallow in this present crazyiness and damaged credibility forever.

And if you all can't bring yourselves to do this worthy job and do it well, then for goodness sakes please step aside and let others come in and do the job....who will actually do the job.

Begging and pleading with people to play nice doesn't work, never has worked, and never will work, in our lifetimes on this site and in our present world situation.

Enforce the rules


Sincerely submitted - don't delete or edit this folks...people need to know


Woody Parr in Georgia ~ Vann








My previous "Woody" registration is disabled or something. At any rate, I cannot access it and it does not work. I've asked Larry to delete the "Woody" registration, but he won't or hasn't done it. So I began a new account and only post here under one name.

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Last edited by Vann on Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:53 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Words and Swords
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This thread is a much needed balm, thanks Mary Jo. Many here have contributed, in kind(ness).

For now I can only offer a couple of "nuggets" that came to mind while prayerfully considering what to contribute:


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180:5.5 The golden rule , when divested of the superhuman insight of the Spirit of Truth, becomes nothing more than a rule of high ethical conduct. The golden rule, when literally interpreted, may become the instrument of great offense to one's fellows. Without a spiritual discernment of the golden rule of wisdom you might reason that, since you are desirous that all men speak the full and frank truth of their minds to you, you should therefore fully and frankly speak the full thought of your mind to your fellow beings. Such an unspiritual interpretation of the golden rule might result in untold unhappiness and no end of sorrow.

54:1.8 There is no error greater than that species of self-deception which leads intelligent beings to crave the exercise of power over other beings for the purpose of depriving these persons of their natural liberties. The golden rule of human fairness cries out against all such fraud, unfairness, selfishness, and unrighteousness. Only true and genuine liberty is compatible with the reign of love and the ministry of mercy.


How many times do we over teach and/or just say too much, in general?
Some lists actually limit posts to 4 a day to keep things balanced. I am not advocating this but do realize the intent.

Yes, Larry, there are lurkers aplenty. In my experience, when those that post plentifully relax a bit and obServe more, those a little less inclined to jump in often do . . .

Susan


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In the "Posters Guidelines" at http://forums.truthbook.com/viewtopic.php?t=519 it says:

Please Do Not: ...
"19. Discuss or complain on the public Forum decisions of the owner, administrators, or moderators."


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Dear Vann,

I stand by my statement: People can disagree without being disagreeable. I never suggested that discussion be abandoned, only that the tone of our posts be carefully considered.


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Gremlin really.....that's hiding behind a wall and refusing/deflecting accountability.


Maryjo,

I hear you. But you repeat yourself. You're essentially asking the members to follow the rules and treat each other well.

That's well and good but it doesn't work. You see for yourself that it doesn't work. So you yourself start a thread noting/complaining about problems on the board.

That what it's all about. It's the responsibility of site staff to handle problems like this. If not staff, then whose responsibility is it? Members do not have any power to take corrective action over rules violations.

When folks break the rules or otherwise disrupt the mission/purpose of the site, you guys should step in and make EFFECTIVE correction. But y'all aren't doing it....and want to dump the problem back on us.

I don't get it. Why can't you see what I'm saying?

Thanks

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I agree wholeheartedly with Vann.

Guys, the tone of many of the recent posts is discrediting what is otherwise a wonderful and uplifting website. I am not an internet connisour, but I have yet to see such an uplifting and wonderful site dedicated to the Urantia Book, as TruthBook.

But the chat room needs effective moderation. If there is something which distracts significantly from the message of the UB, it should be deleted. Perhaps not with the militancy of which Vann speaks, but SOMETHING.

Like it or not, this is a very imperfect planet upon which we rest our feet. And, like it or not, there will be those who desire to do harm to the message of love and dignity which we have found between the big blue covers of the UB. There has been some real ugliness lately. Pride is the greatest danger there is to an individual personality, and there has been alot of pride on display. Personally, I find this more dissapointing than the silliness of some of Vann's "mischief makers".

The Urantia Book is going to change the world. But it is thru us, the readers, the believers, that this transformation will occur.

Be Patient! Be tolerant! Compromise! Perhaps do not compromise your personal beliefs, but be willing to compromise your intrepretations with those of anothers. Christinaity did not become the greatest religion in the world because it would not compromise. Rather, it is it's relitively recent lack of compromise which is leading to its decline. If the Urantia book is to change the world in the same way Christianity did, we better be a whole lot more inclusive. This sick smugness, this I know and you don't, this MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY has got to go.

That's all I have to say.


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Al and Vann, God Bless you my brothers. Can you PM me on the content you find objectionable. I'm curious as to what it is.

We all know we don't all see things the same way. But at the same time someone's personal view is important to them. I get confused with the It's Myway or the Highway stuff. sometimes it seems when one is lobbying for their position that's the way they seem to be posing things.

For my own selfish edification and better understanding of yours and Vann's position if you both wouldn't mind can you send me a candid non-censored PM or email if you guys wouldn't mind.

I'm not here all the time. And I see disruption and disagreement some times but I'm not really sure why. Sometimes it's a personality conflict where a particular poster just rub's you the wrong way. Other times it's various factions maintaining diverse perspectives of what's going on. And they don’t' recognize other's perspectives as valid.

There are many ways conflict ensues. It just seems sometimes there's a lot of conflict surrounding certain posts or posters and I'm wondering if the objections are more disruptive than the offenses?

But I can't personally evaluate that for my own edification when we appropriately and properly, in my opinion, attempt to censor ourselves and our expression. BUT privately we can express things just the way we want without concern of the Public perspective.

My personal position, which some who have been here since before I joined in have witnessed, is that it's the moderators job to moderate and their decision as to how they will do that. They are rendering this service to us. While we certainly can express our opinions about how they might consider moderating certain or specific content, ultimately the decision is theirs by virtue of their commitment to their responsibility.

I have seen things transpire that I agreed with and others that I personally in my own mind questioned. BUT the fact remains the same. It's their job. If I was willing to make the same sacrifice or commitment to service at this site that they have in the position of moderator then it would be my job. But it's not my job. It's theirs and I thank them for their service and I pray for God's Blessing and guidance in their work.

If they censor then some people complain. If they don't censor some people complain. AND it's not always different people complaining. So a moderator is often dammed if he does and dammed if he doesn't.

My Opinion is, voice your opinion then let them do their job and make the best of it no matter which way they go. Keep it as positive as you can.

So anyway Vann and Al I love and respect you both and would really appreciate your uncensored emails. Because I'm missing something that is specifically very important to you both, And I'd like to know the specifics.

Thank you my brothers for your indulgence and tolerance to and of my request.

Forgive me if sound presumptuous. I don't mean to. It's only my opinion and worth no more consideration than any one elses.

God's Peace be with you and all here. :smile:

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Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


Last edited by Joer on Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:29 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Hey Joe,

I think you need to go back to the top. The problems are being pointed out by the topic starter, which is neither Al or myself. I think you need to ask these questions of Maryjo. Al and I only offered responses.

Thanks

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Brothers and Sisters,
Ive remained silent for the past few days, as I saw tensions rising amongst us, and as a newcomer didnt feel comfortable involving myself in the affairs of the people ive recently come to respect greatly for their wisdom. However, as this is a forum for comment (and thats ALL this is, for its not mine to pass judgement on any of my brothers in God) Ive decided to put my .02c in, for whatever it may be worth.
On one hand, there are unwritten rules that we live by, that , although not on paper, common sense tells us to follow. For instance, if I posted less than appealing opinions about Jesus on a forum full of highly faithful people, I would expect to be verbally assaulted by some members, and shouldnt be upset about it, as I saw it coming. On the other hand, I would hope that I am secure enough in my faith that the words of another person wouldnt personally offend me, Thus causing me to assume the role of "defender" of my God and my interputation of his will. As discussed in a previous thread about religion, isnt this what seperates us from all the structured religions of the world? The free study and discussion of a revelation, unhindered by any mans laws enforced upon its people? If I am completely wrong(which I often am) please inform me as to what any of you think Gods will is in this matter, for I truely believe, and hope that the will of God is whats in everyone heart that is concerned.
May the peace and love of the Father guide and teach us all in matters concerning the Brotherhood of Man.

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Last edited by bouk on Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:18 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Hello Bouk, I am glad you're here and your opinion is welcome and entirely valid. I will try and provide you some feedback to your questions.

In my view, this "whole thing" being discussed in this thread is not referring to any single recent incident. In my view, there hundreds of inappropriate entries spread across the all the forums.

This site has a mission statement and it promises to "provide a particular product" as it could be described if you will, and I am frustrated that the "product" is not being delivered and in my opinion. The site IS, set up to deliver this product, but there are two sides which must do their parts acceptably in order to "manufacture" the product. The members must provide acceptable content and the staff must acceptably oversee the content. I see dozens of "failures" on both sides of this consideration. This frustrates me greatly because I care about the topic matter, believe in the mission statement-purpose of this website, and would like to help manufacture an....even excellent.... product for the consumption of the participating or visiting public.

So you have chosen the phrase "free study and discussion of a revelation." While that sounds good on the surface, the word "free" is going to mean "anything goes." Well that might work in a class full of adults who know how to behave properly and are already experts or nearly experts on a subject matter.....but when the format is wide open to the whole world and anyone.....with ANY agenda, can come through the door.....there just must be restrictions and the restrictions needing careful attending to.....all in order to fulfill the mission statement and to deliver a good product.

I got a nice laugh out of your example Bouk about defaming Jesus on a forum of highly faithful people (talking about somewhere else) !! But you see that scenario is precisely what we have here at Truthbook. The Urantia Book is more than 25% all about Jesus, with the addition of His greater universe role as Michael of Nebadon. So I think your example is excellent and spot-on. Mr. Shakita should have known and expected the negative reaction he received from the few people with the gumption to post such a reaction.

And here we may be in the "unwritten rules of common sense" in which you speak. Paul didn't violate a site rule but he posted something which I feel is laughably absurd on a forum which boasts in big letters up in the top left-hand corner of every page, "Discover Jesus and The Urantia Book." I feel these particular comments are so far out in left field that they don't belong on a dignified pro-Jesus site at all. This cannot be justified under the guise of personal opinion.

You simply cannot let people stand up and throw rotten eggs at Jesus on a pro-Jesus forum. Dangit boy you just can't do that !!!! Or else the site loses substantial credibility as being a pro-Jesus site in the first place.

Or, if you are going to allow such freedoms...then hey....chuck all the rules out the window and let anybody say anything.

I do not see how it can be had both ways. The site's mission statement becomes invalid.

Now you are absolutely correct Bouk when thinking that this free exchange of ideas is a divinely reflected reality of our growing "new religion" as presented in the UB......And here is a common mistake that some people make when evaluating the UB versus what they may run into on this or any other discussion board. What you suggest IS true, or should be true, out in the street, in a coffee shop, in a private UB study group, or any other such place. But this site is not living or even trying to live all of the total truth reality that is encompassed by the UB. This site, and most other UB discussion forums that I am familiar with, hold to a much narrower focus of discussions ABOUT the Urantia Book, and to assist new readers with their beginning explorations.

This site, and any other similar site, would be WAY DIFFERENT if it attempted to....live....all of the ideals encompassed in the book. Jesus Himself would probably have to be the administrator or moderator of such a site. Probably no mortal would be presently qualified to operate it appropriately.

And lastly you ask about God's will in this matter. Who knows Bouk? Who knows? I don't think anyone can say. I cannot say nor can I speculate an answer.

I hope any of this helps. Please add more comments if you have any.

Thank you !!


And it may interest you to hear me say that I am guilty of breaking the rules here. I have. Even though I have served as a moderator and the sole board admin of the place a few years ago. There is a distinct difference between being a member and being a staffer. In the past many of my posts have been deleted and edited. I have even been suspended once or twice for a week or two...because I broke the rules or otherwise offered inappropriate commentary. And I don't have any problem with that. I deserved it. I think I have material on the board now in places which should be edited out. But that's not my job to fix problems. Yes I am outspoken on occasion.....but so was Jesus.....so sue me :mrgreen:

My only point is that the rules....and common sense....should be enforced all the time, quickly and equally. Same conditions for everyone. Out in the street, everyone, equally, has to obey the speed limit.....don't they?



Sincerely,

Vann

_________________
Love is the desire to do good to others Image pg 648

http://z7.invisionfree.com/URANTIAFORUMS/index.php


Last edited by Vann on Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:56 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Vann wrote:
Hey Joe,

I think you need to go back to the top. The problems are being pointed out by the topic starter, which is neither Al or myself. I think you need to ask these questions of Maryjo. Al and I only offered responses.

Thanks


Vann you seem to be voicing discontent. And neither Al nor MaryJo can tell why you feel the way you feel. Only you can. And since your posts seem to indicate this discontent is related to the way this site is administered and doesn't seem to have much to do with discussion of the spiritual teachings of The Urantia Book. I think it would be better discussed offline privately rather than online where it seems out of place in the context of discussing precepts and meanings of the content of TUB.

That's why I asked you in particular Vann to discuss specifically what's behind YOUR discontent but offline. If you wanted to discuss your discontent in terms of how it relates to TUB thus redirecting the discussion from one that may seem more like a political agenda to one that might appear to be more of a spiritual agenda related to TUB you might join me looking at these two occurances of the word "discontent" in the book and see what guidence we can get from reflection on it:

P.381 - §2 It is the presence of the divine Spirit, the water of life, that prevents the consuming thirst of mortal discontent and that indescribable hunger of the unspiritualized human mind. Spirit-motivated beings "never thirst, for this spiritual water shall be in them a well of satisfaction springing up into life everlasting." Such divinely watered souls are all but independent of material environment as regards the joys of living and the satisfactions of earthly existence. They are spiritually illuminated and refreshed, morally strengthened and endowed.

P.609 - §3 Thus were these archrebels allowed to roam the entire system to seek further penetration for their doctrines of discontent and self-assertion. But in almost two hundred thousand Urantia years they have been unable to deceive another world. No Satania worlds have been lost since the fall of the thirty-seven, not even those younger worlds peopled since that day of rebellion.

What do you think Vann about our system administration that allowed the "archrebels allowed to roam the entire system" without being banned or censored for 200,000 years? Do you think Jesus will fire them or applaud them? WWJD?

God's peace be with you Vann and us all.
:smile:

_________________
Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


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