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Salutations.

You've really struck a chord with me here, brother (or sister). The anitichrist is many things in many eyes, but many eyes see many things, except truth. I will add some things here that are from personal experience with my dealings with the "antichrist" "hirself". Please take it as it is, and just know that this is my perspective of hir, but on a level sitting accross the table having a cup of tea...perspective.

Before I begin, I would like to understand why you feel a need to know who the antichrist is. Is it because you think it's going to manifest hirself (self proclaimed "hir", as it is s -pre-pseudo-combination of male and female) and teach things which are sweet to hear? Or is it simply because it entertains your imagination, the thought of this antichrist? Either way, or any way, hir existence and purpose is for, general purposes, acceptable to know and understand.

The so-called anitichrist is the same evil being that has permeated the world since hir fall from grace. It seems, in some respects, that it has evolved with time and has made itself accustomed to the time of humanity for the purposes of seeking the world's acceptance, per se, into our homes, and lives. We never let a foreign beig into our home, we always let the common man in, the knowable man. Therefore, it persist in trying to become our friend, and has, secretly, done a good job, to say the least.

Everything we buy, and some of our primitive natures all seem to come from this being. Antichrist is just the "new" term for hir. It's job is to, first, try and win your soul, trust, and FAITH. Secondly, if this fails, it's job is to be the opposing-spirit. I said spirit. Hir spirit does exist, and it is the same spirit that devours the unfaithful of God, and helps influence weak souls into doing "what they will", as it seems to be antichristians law. Human will can not be changed by another entity, but the human can be influenced to change his or her mind. This is done by a spirit like the anitichrist'.

The antichrist is also very smart, intellectually and cleverly. I suppose practice in influencing humanity has made hir good at it. Here's the quixotical, almost incomprehensible thing with the antichrist though. Like the UB, and contrary to popular christian belief, s-he is not evil, nor does s-he stand in any dualistic misconceptional categories. Or, in other words, s-he isn't, at first site, evil. In fact, the methods s-he uses now, in this century at least, is so clever that even if s-he had the ability and clearance from God to come to the earth, Urantia, in a physical form, you would never know s-he was here for the purposes of evil, not even after it s-he died.

Here's the methods, and somewhat similar to the UB's claims.

1. Every man and woman is in and of themselves their own God. The whole idea of religion, or god, is just an excuse to put responsibility of their own wrong doings on something greater, and there lack of goodness thereof.

2. There is a heaven, namely - the Palace of the Stars, where things are pleasant, and where the full and complete free will is embraced in all pleasures unspeakable. Of course, according to this belief, there is government just like those in the UB.

3. All beings are androgynous. Man and woman are simply two parts of an original whole, before such dualities existed. One looks neither male nor female, and yes is more like a child, genderly unrecognizable.

I could go on and on. The ideas behind the antichrist (and I only use antichrist because it opposes the original christ) are summed up in two words, FREE WILL. So much so that you are also your own God, and that there is no need in worshiping anything, only following the teachings of the antichrist, which are aforsaid.

In doing this, the antichrist leads a soul into sin, lust, and whatever he or she wants, thus leading to the surrender of love for hirself from humanity, because we all love what makes us happy, correct? Henceforth, ultimately, hir plan of opposition, even originally is won, if successful, by outwitting humanity. Interesting that s-he would use the same methods s-he was so good at in Heaven to use against humanity, and yet we all see him as this animalistic invalid.

It is our underestimation and misinterpretations that makes US ignorant, not the one we stone. Therefore, let's be better and stop being ignorant, accepting all for the sake of ALL knowledge, because that leads to truth, not selective knowledge.

In repsonde to Iris':

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You folks know that the word "antichrist" does not exist in Revelations, right? It is only mentioned in 1 and 2 John and is referring to the Gnostic movement which was beginning at the time along with other false prophets who denied Christ's human and divine nature. Those who were against Christ were antichrists.


This is only half true, and therefore a complete miscalculation. I don't need to go into detail, but the antichrist real name isn't antichrist, nor is it anything man has come up with. The real name of this being isn't known, or maybe it is and s-he doesn't want us to know it's really hir, Lucifer. But s-he does exist, and it is the culture of religion that has made names for hir. It's good to note that the antichrist freely, and gladly, allows ALL sorts of names to be registered to hir, not only for his validification, but also the fear which breeds from man-made spirit names, not to mention the visual pictures conveived.

Lastly, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, understand this. Most christians believe the "antichrist" will come to the earth and do this and that. Rubbish. The evil one is no more than a spirit, and maybe even a spirit in form on other planes of existence, but doesn't have clearance to be on earth. Hir place of dominion and expertise is in the souls of humankind, eating away at the very personalities of human beings. Just like, similarly, the Holy Spirit influences goodness, the evil spirit radiates vice. And, as I have said before, it isn't the evil one who makes anyone commit wrongdoing, it is the human being that ALLOWS the evil one, through weakness of faith, to commit self-destruction.

Perplexing, isn't it? The fact that the antichrist can't even be held accountable for humankinds wrongdoing. No wonder s-he still remains. What bad record, other than opposing God according to the UB, could we add to hir when it is each and everyone of us that is to blame for our own laziness of the communion in the true Spirit.


lux, vita, amor,

RS

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Solis, in your 3 points above where you say "somewhat similar to the UB's claims" you've misrepresented what The Urantia Book does relate regarding those points. You'll need to read and understand what TUB has to say before trying to put words in its mouth.
Larry


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Iris wrote:
You know, I don't want to put a damper on your party here but the whole premise of the antichrist has nothing whatsoever to do with Revelations. I'm sure there are some Bible scholars on this forum that know all about this, and I gave a mini lecture on this subject a year or so ago on another thread.

You folks know that the word "antichrist" does not exist in Revelations, right? It is only mentioned in 1 and 2 John and is referring to the Gnostic movement which was beginning at the time along with other false prophets who denied Christ's human and divine nature. Those who were against Christ were antichrists.

Yes, John uses the plural. OOOHHH NOOO!!!! not more than one antichrist. How can the world stand it?

Folks, read the Bible. The story of the modern day antichrist, although it has roots in ancient folklore, is not in the Bible. It actually became popular with Hal Lindsey's book, The Late Great Planet Earth from 1970, followed by the Left Behind series by LaHaye and Jenkins. What we know today as the antichrist is modern folklore. It is not biblical nor is it prophetic. It's the stuff that sells books and movies.

Forget it!


Exactly, that is what I'm referring to in that there is a persona that has been created and that persona will be trotted out when someone of real spiritual significance enters the world stage. IMO.

Per Lindsey and Lahaye et al the antichrist is a person who enters the world stage during a time of upheaval, and initially is received well by "unbelievers", then becomes an abomination. They point to two main areas of his influence religious and political. He is for World Govt. and religiously he changes the nature of worship.

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p1286:5 117:5.7 The great circuits of energy, mind, and spirit are never the permanent possessions of ascending personality; these ministries remain forever a part of Supremacy. In the mortal experience the human intellect resides in the rhythmic pulsations of the adjutant mind-spirits and effects its decisions within the arena produced by encircuitment within this ministry. Upon mortal death the human self is everlastingly divorced from the adjutant circuit. While these adjutants never seem to transmit experience from one personality to another, they can and do transmit the impersonal repercussions of decision-action through God the Sevenfold to God the Supreme. (At least this is true of the adjutants of worship and wisdom.)


Last edited by Bonita on Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:00 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Iris wrote:
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Per Lindsey and Lahaye et al the antichrist is a person who enters the world stage during a time of upheaval, and initially is received well by "unbelievers", then becomes an abomination. They point to two main areas of his influence religious and political. He is for World Govt. and religiously he changes the nature of worship.


If you really believe this, then you have to admit that he's already in power. The age of the antichrist is upon us. "Initially is received well by unbelievers then becomes an abomination"; "he changes the nature of worship". That sounds all too familiar to a recent newsworthy totalitarian figure. I guess we're both stuck with it though, since we're both still here and not "enraptured". Did you get your mark of the beast yet? I haven't taken any public funds yet so my mark is still waiting for complete and worldwide economic collapse or until he discovers that I don't believe that he can walk on water, heal the planet or bring world peace. My days are numbered though since I won't worship him or do business with him. Alas and alack! So many of us are doomed and destined to audits and mandatory forfeitures of anything we possess without his mark, including our souls. For, who could admit to having a soul who would not willingly submit to the righteous wisdom of this person's largess? Clearly I am an unworthy one for I own my home and cars (yes cars).I have no debt to anyone. How very, very evil I am; I'm sure all will agree that I must submit, I must submit, I must submit . . . . . :shock:
[all of above said tongue-in-cheek of course]

Get-a-grip my friend. It's all excrement, no matter how you look at it.


I know it's excrement, but it is excrement that has to be dealt with. The belief and persona are ingrained in the hearts of fundies and my point being that anyone with spiritual significance who comes out in these times could possibly be tagged with the moniker of being the AC, and that could be detrimental to any positive message being brought forth.

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Hi Ben (and all):

Ya know how I deal with the auntie-christ? I DON'T!

Look, the whole concept is absurd. It's got deep roots, going WAAAY past even the Zoroastrian good vs. evil stuff, all the way back to the primitive evolutionary fears of the unknown. Who easier to pin ones fears on than the Devil, or even better still, let’s perpetuate this fallacy and pin a new title (for the same old fears) on a new guy, a guy who we fantasize will be all that our new main-man (Jesus) is not??

Such is the sordid history of the auntie-christ. I’m not even gonna give him the courtesy of using his “real” name, (as if a phantasm of man’s fevered imagination could have a real name!).

The best way to deal with this concept is to ignore it. After all, it’s no more harmful to the average Christian than the rejection of evolution, or any number of silly superstitions which they so fondly cherish. Eventually, these things have a way of dying out on their own. The best way to get it to linger around is to “deal with it”, which, after all, merely validates the concept within the minds of the delusional.

Al


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The Definitive AntiChrist

As the antichrist is not mentioned in The Urantia Book one would think that would be definitive enough, but we do enjoy speculating don't we, and we do enjoy scaring ourselves with the kind of boogie man Solis has described above.

An antichrist would be a being capable of negating Jesus on earth or Michael in Nebadon. Since Michael is a creator no creature wields any such authority or power over him, just like mere mortals couldn't interact with the Greek gods on a level playing field. Human? Midwayer? No, they're creatures. Any order of angels or archangels? No they're created by the Universe Mother Spirit. Lanonandek, Vondodek, Melchizedek? No, this is one of the reasons the long list of personalities of the Grand Universe is included in The Urantia Book — it provides a celestial pecking order. For an antichrist to be a reality such a being would have to be equal in authority to a Creator Son and there is no dissension at that level of creation or above. An antichrist of any lesser order is no more than a boogie man.

Lucifer is a Lanonandek, a child of Michael. The levels of authority between a Michael and a Lanonandek are analogous to the authority levels between a mature adult to a child; they're not equals, Lucifer has no power where Michael is concerned; if Lucifer were the antichrist he'd be just as ineffectual as he was when Jesus confronted him on the mountaintop.

The concept of an antichrist is the embodiment of the kinds of scary things promulgated by the Church to win converts to Christianity through fear and it's employed today primarily by Christian fundamentalists in that same capacity. The only power evil has today is that which we give it in our thinking and in our actions through our free-will choices -- good enough reason not to continue to speculate on such a topic.

Predictions of dire events to come based on religious fears are today's boogie men carried forward hundreds of thousands of years from the superstitious early days of an evolutionary initial spiritual awakening.
Larry


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Brothers and Sisters

The anti christ is a fantasy, created by the fundamental church. There really should be little discussion on this subject since it isn't even part of the UB. The closes analogy of this subject is the evil that still exist on Earth, that could be called the anti-christ.

Brother ...Jess


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Joer wrote:
I didn't find the part where it said his visions as reported in the Bible were messed up. But I seem to remember it. But I do remember reading these things and imagining how it may have looked and been expressed by a human consciousness from 2000 years ago. :smile:
. [/b] :smile:


139:4.14 When in temporary exile on Patmos, John wrote the Book of Revelation, which you now have in greatly abridged and distorted form. This Book of Revelation contains the surviving fragments of a great revelation, large portions of which were lost, other portions of which were removed, subsequent to John's writing. It is preserved in only fragmentary and adulterated form.

Hey Brother Joer,

Here is the section I was referring to which is kind of central to my first question, if the AC could actually be a good guy due to the distortions in the Book of Rev. Up could be down and such.

This is purely conjecture. I certainly don't believe that the devil would play any type of role in grooming a human to be the AC as I believe that TUB and the Bible say he is condemned and the only evil we fight is the evil produced by humans and humans alone.

Larry, feel free to move this post to Abner's if you wish or just let it die off as I did not intend to make this a controversial subject, but I guess it is.

Peace and God Bless,

RB

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Salutations.

I made a mistake which I must correct. I knew it was a mistake when I wrote it, but for whatever reason didn't feel a need to fix it since my reference to it was obvious. I said that the UB is similar to the idea of...(nomenclature) to the antichrist. I was referring to the concept of the reasons Lucifer opposed the system originally, which were because he thought that self-government was the best medicine and there was no need for any celestial government...etc. So, for that, I apologize.

The so-called anti-christ is, indeed, as Iris mentioned, a made up name cooked up by early christians. The idea of the entity is real, the name frivilous. Make sure you note the difference. But, here, I will delve deeper not to add to the antichristian myth, but to straighten out the myth into lenses which you can see out of, clearly therefore making it more fact than fiction. Although none of us know a complete factual story of this entity, some of us have experienced hir spirit, regrettably.

I find Iwatkins entry best to use because he uses, and has, innocently, the same tainted perspective that old christians had hundreds of years ago - that is, misconception based on an interpretation drawn by the feelings (fear, hate, etc) of the human being, rather than by the Spirit which teahes us about these things for those that have ears to hear. However, I first want to say that I'm not using Iwatkins post to degrade his character, I'm simply using his modeled perception as an example of why we have created myths to begin with.


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and we do enjoy scaring ourselves with the kind of boogie man Solis has described above.


Misconceptions seem to be automatic in our human minds, even when we know they are, obviously and incorrectly, miscalculated. I would assume that this happens autonomously of recognition, but, then again, maybe not. We have NOTHING, nor no-thing (a reference the "anti-chrst" also likes to use) to fear of the evil one. So, my reasons for replying to this thread are to simply add my understanding of the entity that I presume is clearer than those that haven't had any association with hir at all, save for the common mistakes we make because of the evil spirit.

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An antichrist would be a being capable of negating Jesus on earth or Michael in Nebadon.


Nay. The so-called anti-christ has no immediate care for what our Lord Jesus Christ came down and accomplished, although it does seem to put a thorn in hir side. The anti-christ' has no capability other than using hir spirit to influence the weak human soul, which, if we look at the world honestly, we would see s-he was successful. So, that point is laughable, respectively, of course. Remember, what we think would be the cares of a higher, or lower entity, is not always true, since, according to the UB, we are such lowly beings, therefore finite capable and primitive thinkers in comparison to those more capable. Those entities are, literally, from different worlds.

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Since Michael is a creator no creature wields any such authority or power over him, just like mere mortals couldn't interact with the Greek gods on a level playing field.


No entity has any power over Christ Michael. Not even Lucifer, or Claigastia hirself (which may or may not be the same entity). If this were true, to any extent, we would all be under the rule of this malevolent, but seemingly transcendental being. Nobody makes any claims this is true, and it is agreeable that it isn't. Also, in reference to that same paragraph, no, there is no boggie man.........

Quote:
if Lucifer were the antichrist he'd be just as ineffectual as he was when Jesus confronted him on the mountaintop.


Except that Lucifer isn't dealing with such a powerful being as Michael, but rather "lower" beings like humans. So, the ease it takes to convince a human is apparently much easier than trying to convince, or influence, a Creator Son.

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The concept of an antichrist is the embodiment of the kinds of scary things promulgated by the Church to win converts to Christianity through fear and it's employed today primarily by Christian fundamentalists in that same capacity. The only power evil has today is that which we give it in our thinking and in our actions through our free-will choices -- good enough reason not to continue to speculate on such a topic.


True. The only thing I would add is that, while on Urantia, we must remain with our eyes open, and not fall asleep. I think we need not be afraid inasmuch as we need to be alert. There's a big difference there, and I think we are missing the point behind understanding the difference.

At any rate, remain in faith, have no fear, but always be aware. That would be my best personal advice.

lux, vita, amor,

RS[/quote]

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Rainbow Ben wrote:
Joer wrote:
I didn't find the part where it said his visions as reported in the Bible were messed up. But I seem to remember it. But I do remember reading these things and imagining how it may have looked and been expressed by a human consciousness from 2000 years ago. :smile:
. [/b] :smile:


139:4.14 When in temporary exile on Patmos, John wrote the Book of Revelation, which you now have in greatly abridged and distorted form. This Book of Revelation contains the surviving fragments of a great revelation, large portions of which were lost, other portions of which were removed, subsequent to John's writing. It is preserved in only fragmentary and adulterated form.

Hey Brother Joer,

Here is the section I was referring to which is kind of central to my first question, if the AC could actually be a good guy due to the distortions in the Book of Rev. Up could be down and such.

This is purely conjecture. I certainly don't believe that the devil would play any type of role in grooming a human to be the AC as I believe that TUB and the Bible say he is condemned and the only evil we fight is the evil produced by humans and humans alone.

Larry, feel free to move this post to Abner's if you wish or just let it die off as I did not intend to make this a controversial subject, but I guess it is.

Peace and God Bless,

RB


Thanks Ben. That's Cool! I found this part in 1John and it seems to reflect the analysis Iris gave saying that it was describing those who were against Christ at that time of great upheaval in Judah and throughout the Roman Empire with persecution of the Christians. In verse 24 it seems like he's trying to keep Christians true to the original teachings of Christ.

1john 2:18-26
18 Children, it is the last hour; 9 and just as you heard that the antichrist was coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. Thus we know this is the last hour.

19 They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

20 But you have the anointing that comes from the holy one [The Spirit of Truth], and you all have knowledge.

21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth.

22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, [u]this is the antichrist. [/u]

23 No one who denies the Son has the Father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well.

24 Let what you heard from the beginning remain in you. If what you heard from the beginning remains in you, then you will remain in the Son and in the Father.

25 And this is the promise that he made us: eternal life.

26 I write you these things about those who would deceive you.


In this historical and critical literay analisis of Revelations you can see TUB is backed-up in what it says about the content being changed "greatly abridged and distorted form", by other editors or authors. HERE

"Though the perspective is eschatological - ultimate salvation and victory are said to take place at the end of the present age when Christ will come in glory at the parousia - the book presents the decisive struggle of Christ and his followers against Satan and his cohorts as already over. Christ's overwhelming defeat of the kingdom of Satan ushered in the everlasting reign of God (⇒ Rev 11:15; ⇒ 12:10). Even the forces of evil unwittingly carry out the divine plan (⇒ Rev 17:17), for God is the sovereign Lord of history.

...The author of the book calls himself John (⇒ Rev 1:1, 4, 9; ⇒ 22:8), who because of his Christian faith has been exiled to the rocky island of Patmos, a Roman penal colony. Although he never claims to be John the apostle, whose name is attached to the fourth gospel, he was so identified by several of the early church Fathers, including Justin, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Cyprian, and Hippolytus. This identification, however, was denied by other Fathers, including Denis of Alexandria, Eusebius of Caesarea, Cyril of Jerusalem, Gregory Nazianzen, and John Chrysostom. Indeed, vocabulary, grammar, and style make it doubtful that the book could have been put into its present form by the same person(s) responsible for the fourth gospel. Nevertheless, there are definite linguistic and theological affinities between the two books. The tone of the letters to the seven churches (⇒ Rev 1:4-⇒ 3:22) is indicative of the great authority the author enjoyed over the Christian communities in Asia. It is possible, therefore, that he was a disciple of John the apostle, who is traditionally associated with that part of the world. The date of the book in its present form is probably near the end of the reign of Domitian (A.D. 81-96), a fierce persecutor of the Christians."

So by analisis of the writing they can almost tell what John wrote and what was written by others. Unfortunately they can't see what was left out.

I'm curious Ben, is there some Biblical Scripture or more TUB stuff that leads to the conception of the AntiChrist being Good? The reason I ask is I've seen people show me things in scripture like that, that show that Hell isn't eternal like many fundamentalists argue that it is. And it was all a matter of understanding and I think it was in Revelations also about when Christ comes and makes everything NEW. This Biblical reader had an excellent interpretation of how that was the end of Hell.

I know that's different than TUB. But it's important to show that, to Bible believers who still believe in an eternal tormental Hell. That's why I'm interested in how you came across your concept.

Peace Brother. God Bless all your work bringing in the sheaves.:smile:

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Hi Solis, I would like to share some stuff with you, on hir. From a different perspective than you have. This perspective is built on truth hope and confidence in God and has ABSOLUTELY nothing in it to FEAR. I know you know a whole other story in which Fear is prominent I pray for you brother that if you haven't felt the POWER of your faith to repel iniquity, that you let these concepts dispel what you have experienced and let the LOVE of Our Father and Brother give POWER to your faith and promote your unreserved healing.

Your are my brother Solis and the brother of ALL here. Our Father and Brother will protect your Spirit regardless of what happens to your body. Your body can only be harmed by those led astray and our own neglect of it. But you can love those led astray without fear without embracing or practicing their iniquity and with the full protection of that, that is most valuable your morontial soul, with your faith and your Love.

In God's peace I leave you in God's LOVE I stand with you my brother.

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P.602 - §1 Very little was heard of Lucifer on Urantia owing to the fact that he assigned his first lieutenant, Satan, to advocate his cause on your planet. Satan was a member of the same primary group of Lanonandeks but had never functioned as a System Sovereign; he entered fully into the Lucifer insurrection. The "devil" is none other than Caligastia, the deposed Planetary Prince of Urantia and a Son of the secondary order of Lanonandeks. At the time Michael was on Urantia in the flesh, Lucifer, Satan, and Caligastia were leagued together to effect the miscarriage of his bestowal mission. But they signally failed.

P.602 - §4 Lucifer and his first assistant, Satan, had reigned on Jerusem for more than five hundred thousand years when in their hearts they began to array themselves against the Universal Father and his then vicegerent Son, Michael.

P.602 - §5 There were no peculiar or special conditions in the system of Satania which suggested or favored rebellion. It is our belief that the idea took origin and form in Lucifer's mind, and that he might have instigated such a rebellion no matter where he might have been stationed. Lucifer first announced his plans to Satan, but it required several months to corrupt the mind of his able and brilliant associate. However, when once converted to the rebel theories, he became a bold and earnest advocate of "self-assertion and liberty."

P.603 - §2 Whatever the early origins of trouble in the hearts of Lucifer and Satan, the final outbreak took form as the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. The cause of the rebels was stated under three heads:

The Savior
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P.609 - §6 The bestowal of Michael terminated the Lucifer rebellion in all Satania aside from the planets of the apostate Planetary Princes. And this was the significance of Jesus' personal experience, just before his death in the flesh, when he one day exclaimed to his disciples, "And I beheld Satan fall as lightning from heaven." He had come with Lucifer to Urantia for the last crucial struggle.

P.609 - §7 The Son of Man was confident of success, and he knew that his triumph on your world would forever settle the status of his agelong enemies, not only in Satania but also in the other two systems where sin had entered. There was survival for mortals and security for angels when your Master, in reply to the Lucifer proposals, calmly and with divine assurance replied, "Get you behind me, Satan." That was, in principle, the real end of the Lucifer rebellion. True, the Uversa tribunals have not yet rendered the executive decision regarding the

This next excerpt is very important Solis. No Evil on Earth or anywhere can harms us if we remain with God. We may lose our body to a weak decieved soul. But our spirit is inviolable One other thing like you said, evil cannot touch you UNLESS you let it. We must stand firm with God.
O:)
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P.610 - §4 But even so, no fallen spirit ever did have the power to invade the minds or to harass the souls of the children of God. Neither Satan nor Caligastia could ever touch or approach the faith sons of God; faith is an effective armor against sin and iniquity. It is true: "He who is born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one touches him not."

P.610 - §2 The last act of Michael before leaving Urantia was to offer mercy to Caligastia and Daligastia, but they spurned his tender proffer. Caligastia, your apostate Planetary Prince, is still free on Urantia to prosecute his nefarious designs, but he has absolutely no power to enter the minds of men, neither can he draw near to their souls to tempt or corrupt them unless they really desire to be cursed with his wicked presence.

P.610 - §3 Before the bestowal of Michael these rulers of darkness sought to maintain their authority on Urantia, and they persistently withstood the minor and subordinate celestial personalities. But since the day of Pentecost this traitorous Caligastia and his equally contemptible associate, Daligastia, are servile before the divine majesty of the Paradise Thought Adjusters and the protective Spirit of Truth, the spirit of Michael, which has been poured out upon all flesh.

The result of Iniquity
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P.611 - §3 Satan could come to Urantia because you had no Son of standing in residence--neither Planetary Prince nor Material Son. Machiventa Melchizedek has since been proclaimed vicegerent Planetary Prince of Urantia, and the opening of the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer has signalized the inauguration of temporary planetary regimes on all the isolated worlds. It is true that Satan did periodically visit Caligastia and others of the fallen princes right up to the time of the presentation of these revelations, when there occurred the first hearing of Gabriel's plea for the annihilation of the archrebels. Satan is now unqualifiedly detained on the Jerusem prison worlds.

P.611 - §5 We do not look for a removal of the present Satania restrictions until the Ancients of Days make final disposition of the archrebels. The system circuits will not be reinstated so long as Lucifer lives. Meantime, he is wholly inactive.

The Mercy
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P.615 - §6 Another problem somewhat difficult of explanation in the constellation of Norlatiadek pertains to the reasons for permitting Lucifer, Satan, and the fallen princes to work mischief so long before being apprehended, interned, and adjudicated.

P.616 - §1 Parents, those who have borne and reared children, are better able to understand why Michael, a Creator-father, might be slow to condemn and destroy his own Sons. Jesus' story of the prodigal son well illustrates how a loving father can long wait for the repentance of an erring child.

P.616 - §2 The very fact that an evil-doing creature can actually choose to do wrong--commit sin--establishes the fact of free-willness and fully justifies any length delay in the execution of justice provided the extended mercy might conduce to repentance and rehabilitation.

The History
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P.616 - §3 Most of the liberties which Lucifer sought he already had; others he was to receive in the future. All these precious endowments were lost by giving way to impatience and yielding to a desire to possess what one craves now and to possess it in defiance of all obligation to respect the rights and liberties of all other beings composing the universe of universes. Ethical obligations are innate, divine, and universal.

P.754 - §2 For three hundred thousand years Caligastia had been in charge of Urantia when Satan, Lucifer's assistant, made one of his periodic inspection calls. And when Satan arrived on the planet, his appearance in no way resembled your caricatures of his nefarious majesty. He was, and still is, a Lanonandek Son of great brilliance. "And no marvel, for Satan himself is a brilliant creature of light."

The Battle
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P.1493 - §4 After more than five weeks of unbroken communion with his Paradise Father, Jesus became absolutely assured of his nature and of the certainty of his triumph over the material levels of time-space personality manifestation. He fully believed in, and did not hesitate to assert, the ascendancy of his divine nature over his human nature.

P.1493 - §5 Near the end of the mountain sojourn Jesus asked his Father if he might be permitted to hold conference with his Satania enemies as the Son of Man, as Joshua ben Joseph. This request was granted. During the last week on Mount Hermon the great temptation, the universe trial, occurred. Satan (representing Lucifer) and the rebellious Planetary Prince, Caligastia, were present with Jesus and were made fully visible to him. And this "temptation," this final trial of human loyalty in the face of the misrepresentations of rebel personalities, had not to do with food, temple pinnacles, or presumptuous acts. It had not to do with the kingdoms of this world but with the sovereignty of a mighty and glorious universe. The symbolism of your records was intended for the backward ages of the world's childlike thought. And subsequent generations should understand what a great struggle the Son of Man passed through that eventful day on Mount Hermon.

P.1493 - §6 To the many proposals and counterproposals of the emissaries of Lucifer, Jesus only made reply: "May the will of my Paradise Father prevail, and you, my rebellious son, may the Ancients of Days judge you divinely. I am your Creator-father; I can hardly judge you justly, and my mercy you have already spurned. I commit you to the adjudication of the Judges of a greater universe."

P.1494 - §1 To all the Lucifer-suggested compromises and makeshifts, to all such specious proposals about the incarnation bestowal, Jesus only made reply, "The will of my Father in Paradise be done." And when the trying ordeal was finished, the detached guardian seraphim returned to Jesus' side and ministered to him.

The Victory
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P.1494 - §2 On an afternoon in late summer, amid the trees and in the silence of nature, Michael of Nebadon won the unquestioned sovereignty of his universe. On that day he completed the task set for Creator Sons to live to the full the incarnated life in the likeness of mortal flesh on the evolutionary worlds of time and space. The universe announcement of this momentous achievement was not made until the day of his baptism, months afterward, but it all really took place that day on the mountain. And when Jesus came down from his sojourn on Mount Hermon, the Lucifer rebellion in Satania and the Caligastia secession on Urantia were virtually settled. Jesus had paid the last price required of him to attain the sovereignty of his universe, which in itself regulates the status of all rebels and determines that all such future upheavals (if they ever occur) may be dealt with summarily and effectively. Accordingly, it may be seen that the so-called "great temptation" of Jesus took place some time before his baptism and not just after that event.


God's Peace be with you always Solis. Comment and question me thoroughly. In God's Love I will gladly answer. God Bless You Solis and and ALL here. O:)

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Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


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Greetings Joer.


There is something I can't manage to grasp herein, and it has almost become a mysterious and interesting thought-process. No matter how much I say "no, there is nothing to fear of the evil one", it always comes out to be "you all have the evil one to fear!..." Am I the only one to notice this?...The same thought-process was adopted by Iris, either mistakenly or in intentional error, possibly by the fear of the evil one hirself...Whatever the case, I will manage to clear the mess up again.
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Hi Solis, I would like to share some stuff with you, on hir. From a different perspective than you have. This perspective is built on truth hope and confidence in God and has ABSOLUTELY nothing in it to FEAR. I know you know a whole other story in which Fear is prominent I pray for you brother that if you haven't felt the POWER of your faith to repel iniquity, that you let these concepts dispel what you have experienced and let the LOVE of Our Father and Brother give POWER to your faith and promote your unreserved healing.


Here's the first example. I don't know where I told anyone at any time to fear ANYTHING but it's a huge mistake to think I did...verily. If you would only thoroughly read my post it would make this clear. The only thing I have said is that we must have faith and be awake, alert, and not so frivilous minded in human behavior..just as Jesus told us to "keep watch"
(Matthew 24:42) and not fall asleep in the most dire of times. This isn't heaven brethren, nor is it perfect. In fact, everything in modern society seems like a manifestation of the opposer of Christ. All you need to do is turn the television on to see if for youself. It is in ignoring the issues at hand that they lead to ignorance.
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This next excerpt is very important Solis. No Evil on Earth or anywhere can harms us if we remain with God.


True. I believe I said this too, except that I added that as long as we have faith in Spirit, and be cautious of our primitive ways, we don't have anything to worry about. Furthermore, even if we did commit regularly high sin, evil still wouldn't be able to touch us. Evil can ONLY...influence us when we become less spiritual and more primitive, animalistic, agreesive. Then, through lack of moral, we ingest the evil spirit and become more and more melavolent to the world, and to ourselves.

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But our spirit is inviolable One other thing evil, cannot touch you UNLESS you let it. We must stand firm with God.


Again, true. The only way evil can communicate with us is if (1) we accept the evil spirit (influence) like we do the Holy Spirit, and (2) if we have FAITH in hir. It is when giving our beloved FAITH to something other than God that I believe we commit the greatest sin.

I think many of you forget that the news, the world, the actions, the inactions, etc. etc. are all part of the influence of this evil spirit (influence). We are constantly being fed a mas amount of crap every day of our lives. And, yes, it is with faith, our armor, that we can protect ourselves from these influences. But, nevertheless, they still enter our minds, influence our hearts, and form our thinking. If anyone is putting fear into anyone's hearts it's the world media.

Many of you don't know, but this world is mostly run by the evil spirit itself. I could show you many things to prove this. It's all pretty obvious and makes up the skeleton and backbone of the evil influence itself. I will give you one example and let you all have that as validity that what I say is true. This isn't for my glorification, God forbid, but the acknowledgement of truth. A view from an sun's eye, per se.

In and of EVERYTHING we buy, there is a barcode with numbers. If we look at the back of these barcodes, we will notice numbers. The numbers represent the number line gap for each parrellell line. There are two different variations of the triple six with this barcode. The first is when on the first line gap, and it's a six. The second six is found in the very middle, and the last at the very end. The other variations is when the two sixes are together at the end, and the first six is at the begining.

The triple six is posted everywhere on everything we buy, and since money is the root of all evil, it makes good sense. Eventually, (and I'm not telling prophecy here, I'm simply telling what I know based on measured human evolution and technology) we will all be offered a computer chip to be planted somewhere on our bodies to help categorize us in the future. In pathagorean numerology, we notice that words equal the sum of six six six. Consider:

a=6
b=12
c=18
d=24
e=30
f=36
g=42
h=48
i=54
j=60
k=66
l=72
m=78
n=84
o=90
p=96
q=102
r=108
s=114
t=120
u=126
v=132
w=138
x=144
y=150
z=156

COMPUTER = 18+90+78+96+126+120+30+108=666

There are many calculations to be had with numbers. Numbers seem to be the method of calculatory measurement of the skelital system of space and time, and all things therein. Even the Ub authors refused to give exact numbers calculations and made it very clear that they could be wrong. Because with numbers, we find truth unvieled in the most hidden of places. But, obviously, the authors of the UB knew we weren't quite ready for this sort of knowledge, since even they themselves didn't have access to perfect answers on or of science.

And, AGIAN, I'm not trying to make anyone afraid, but I am trying to make people REALIZE that Caligastia, or whatever you call hir, INFLUENCES human beings and we must at ALL times be alert, and faithful in God, lest we all sink into a complete lifestyle of falsity and self-destruction.

The Spirit saves us from these highers learnings becaue It knows we don't know anything of it, and those higher beings do, which they cleverly use against us. That is why FAITH is so great. Faith unifies us through a self-sacrificial ritual of self-will to the Holy Spirit. Once we do this, we automatically sign over our imperfections to the Spirit which then makes us invincible to what we don't know about, as long as we stay within the influence of the Spirit. When we allow ourselves to delve into this world of pleasures, we slowly lose ourselves everyday in naught.

In any case, there is no fear emanating from me or my words, only experienced truth. All I am saying is the same thing our Lord told us to do, and that is to keep watch. That's the sum of it all, my brethren, regarding my words.

lux, vita, amor,

RS

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The least initial deviation from the truth is multiplied later a thousandfold.
-- Aristotle (384-322 BC)


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Hi Solis, I'm sorry if I offended you by your seeing that I was implying that you are a harbinger of fear. I didn’t mean to do that.

It looks to me like we are saying pretty close to the same thing. Except I’m not saying

Quote:
Many of you don't know, but this world is mostly run by the evil spirit itself. I could show you many things to prove this. It's all pretty obvious and makes up the skeleton and backbone of the evil influence itself.
or
Quote:
There are two different variations of the triple six with this barcode. The first is when on the first line gap, and it's a six. The second six is found in the very middle, and the last at the very end. The other variations is when the two sixes are together at the end, and the first six is at the begining.
or
Quote:
The triple six is posted everywhere on everything we buy, and since money is the root of all evil, it makes good sense.
In pathagorean numerology, we notice that words equal the sum of six six six. Consider:

or
Quote:
a=6
b=12
c=18
d=24
e=30
f=36
g=42
h=48
i=54
j=60
k=66
l=72
m=78
n=84
o=90
p=96
q=102
r=108
s=114
t=120
u=126
v=132
w=138
x=144
y=150
z=156

COMPUTER = 18+90+78+96+126+120+30+108=666

or
Quote:
And, AGIAN, I'm not trying to make anyone afraid, but I am trying to make people REALIZE that Caligastia, or whatever you call hir, INFLUENCES human beings and we must at ALL times be alert, and faithful in God, lest we all sink into a complete lifestyle of falsity and self-destruction.
or
Quote:
knows we don't know anything of it, and those higher beings do, which they cleverly use against us.
or
Quote:
Faith unifies us through a self-sacrificial ritual of self-will to the Holy Spirit.

or
Quote:
we automatically sign over our imperfections to the Spirit which then makes us invincible to what we don't know about, as long as we stay within the influence of the Spirit

or
Quote:
In any case, there is no fear emanating from me or my words, only experienced truth.


So while I didn't say all that stuff that contains things that one might argue are fearmongering. I'm not saying that. And I'm saying my desire to do the Will of God is not a a self-sacrificial ritual it's a joy to do with many rewards. And I don't "automatically sign over imperfections to the Spirit". I willing acknowledge that even though I'm imperfect, GOD in ALL of God's manefestations that ARE TRUE TO GOD'S WILL LOVES ME.

And while "the Spirit which then makes us spiritually invincible to what we don't know about, as long as we stay within the influence of the Spirit" God also protects in what we do know about as long as we CHOOSE to do his will in every decision we make a thousands times a day.

So while you say "there is no fear emanating from me or my words" that may be true for you as only you experientially know that truth. BUT you don't know if the words you share of evil in the world, money is evil, Caligastia influences Human Beings, we all sink into a lifestyle of falsity and self-destruction, The triple six is posted everywhere, this world is mostly run by the evil spirit itself, It's all pretty obvious and makes up the skeleton and backbone of the evil influence itself, and things like that might lead one to believe not that YOU FEAR, but what you say might incite fear in others that may be weak of faith.

If "the Spirit which then makes us spiritually invincible to what we don't know about". Why would you try to make us know that the world is FULL OF EVIL THINGS, INFLUENCE, and a plethora of Evil? Why not leave us blissfully ignorant and protected by the Holy Mother Spirit of GOD. and the Son and the Father?

When I said:
Quote:
This perspective is built on truth hope and confidence in God and has ABSOLUTELY nothing in it to FEAR.
It was not an indictment of your fear. It was an affirmation of Faith in God.
When I said:
Quote:
I know you know a whole other story in which Fear is prominent
Perhaps I was wrong. Maybe I should have used the word "EVIL" instead of "Fear". Than I could recite what God's servant David purportedly said, I will fear no evil, thy rod and thy staff comfort me.
And when I said:
Quote:
But you can love those led astray without fear without embracing or practicing their iniquity
Perhaps you thought I meant you were afraid to love those whom have been influence by iniquity. Certainly you're not afraid of all the iniquity you warn us of. Right? And you're not afraid that we will fall victim to the purveyors of iniquity.

I wonder if you feel the necessity to warn us of so much iniquity and evil in the world because you feel our Faith is weak? I know you state your intent is to warn us of all this Evil less we might fall into it’s web of attraction.

So I have to ask you Solis, I've noticed you haven't responded much to anything I've shared with you from TUB. What's your response to this question.

P.2076 - §4 When there is so much good truth to publish and proclaim, why should men dwell so much upon the evil in the world just because it appears to be a fact? The beauties of the spiritual values of truth are more pleasurable and uplifting than is the phenomenon of evil.

And why should any of us worry about the EVIL in the world when these are the instructions our Lord and Master gave us?

P.2018 - §1 The cross forever shows that the attitude of Jesus toward sinners was neither condemnation nor condonation, but rather eternal and loving salvation. Jesus is truly a savior in the sense that his life and death do win men over to goodness and righteous survival. Jesus loves men so much that his love awakens the response of love in the human heart. Love is truly contagious and eternally creative. Jesus' death on the cross exemplifies a love which is sufficiently strong and divine to forgive sin and swallow up all evil-doing. Jesus disclosed to this world a higher quality of righteousness than justice--mere technical right and wrong. Divine love does not merely forgive wrongs; it absorbs and actually destroys them. The forgiveness of love utterly transcends the forgiveness of mercy. Mercy sets the guilt of evil-doing to one side; but love destroys forever the sin and all weakness resulting therefrom. Jesus brought a new method of living to Urantia. He taught us not to resist evil but to find through him a goodness which effectually destroys evil. The forgiveness of Jesus is not condonation; it is salvation from condemnation. Salvation does not slight wrongs; it makes them right. True love does not compromise nor condone hate; it destroys it.[/b] The love of Jesus is never satisfied with mere forgiveness. The Master's love implies rehabilitation, eternal survival. It is altogether proper to speak of salvation as redemption if you mean this eternal rehabilitation.

P.2064 - §3 Pentecost, with its spiritual endowment, was designed forever to loose the religion of the Master from all dependence upon physical force; the teachers of this new religion are now equipped with spiritual weapons. They are to go out to conquer the world with unfailing forgiveness, matchless good will, and abounding love. [b]They are equipped to overcome evil with good, to vanquish hate by love, to destroy fear with a courageous and living faith in truth.


P.600 - §3 No matter what the special natural history of an individual planet may be, no difference whether a realm has been wholly loyal, tainted with evil, or cursed by sin--no matter what the antecedents may be--sooner or later the grace of God and the ministry of angels will usher in the day of the advent of the Trinity Teacher Sons; and their departure, following their final mission, will inaugurate this superb era of light and life.

P.610 - §5 In general, when weak and dissolute mortals are supposed to be under the influence of devils and demons, they are merely being dominated by their own inherent and debased tendencies, being led away by their own natural propensities. The devil has been given a great deal of credit for evil which does not belong to him. Caligastia has been comparatively impotent since the cross of Christ.

P.616 - §6 The mercy delays of time are by the mandate of the free will of the Creators. There is good to be derived in the universe from this technique of patience in dealing with sinful rebels. While it is all too true that good cannot come of evil to the one who contemplates and performs evil, it is equally true that all things (including evil, potential and manifest) [b]work together for good to all beings who know God, love to do his will, and are ascending Paradiseward according to his eternal plan and divine purpose.[/b]

Rom:8:
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who is against us?
32 He that spared not even his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how hath he not also, with him, given us all things?
33 Who shall accuse against the elect of God? God is he that justifieth:
34 Who is he that shall condemn? Christ Jesus that died: yea that is risen also again, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who then shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation? Or distress? Or famine? Or nakedness? Or danger? Or persecution? Or the sword?
37 But in all these things we overcome, because of him that hath loved us.38 For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor might,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So anyway, though you Fear Not Solis. Join us in seeing God's Love in the world and in being the Love of God that consumes the Evil in the world. O:)
In God's Love may we be joined. Bless you my brother and ALL here.

_________________
Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


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Each individual gets to accept responsibility for his or her own feelings - hate, fear, courage, joy, etc.

Each individual is a child of God and the Father's eternal watchcare is no less secure on a planet in rebellion than one that has never EXPERIENCED such a challenge.

There is no antichrist. There are lots of confused folks whose troubles are of their own making and who have learned to be comfortable with the idea that few of their troubles are of their own making - the evil one is the cause don't you know. Well, years ago when Satan was in charge - only later having to take responsibility for his own personal troubles - this evil one was the cause of many problems and we still do battle with these "problems left behind."

Enjoy your humanity - you only get to do it once. Urantia continues to advance - one step at a time.

All the best, Ray


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