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Larry wrote:

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TUB indicates that the recording of long life spans is a misconception, except where beings outside the flow of evolution were concerned.


Larry,

I believe you here because I have respect for all your experience, but could you possibly provide a UB reference for this, because I don't recall seeing it anywhere.

Also, How do you know you won't reach the fusion point before you die a physical death?

Al,

I agree with you that this has become a really cool thread, thanks to you directing it in this direction and to others for daring to jump in. I love our little Truthbook family. I typed "Enoch OR Elijah" into one of the Truthbook search engines--if you want to read it, here it is:

http://www.truthbook.com/search/UBParag ... chForm.cfm

[Admin changed Stacey's link. One cannot link to a set of search results. The above - corrected - link will allow the user to do their own search.]

Love to all,

Stacey

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Hi Stacey,

The 3 paragraph quote I gave says it all I think -- you won't find the words I used that "the recording of long life spans is a misconception" in TUB but as I read it, that's what those paragraphs are saying. They that had the life force receptivity of the Prince's staff and from Adam and Eve lived longer than normal humans for some generations -- for normal humans 70 years of age would have been exceptional. What do you think?
Larry


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Thanks, Larry, and I'm sorry I didn't catch your references earlier--I had company all day and was trying to watch football during all this. Go Tennessee Titans..

Here is Larry's reference:
Quote:
When archaeologists dig up the clay-tablet records of the later-day Sumerian descendants of the Nodites, they discover lists of Sumerian kings running back for several thousand years; and as these records go further back, the reigns of the individual kings lengthen from around twenty-five or thirty years up to one hundred and fifty years and more. This lengthening of the reigns of these older kings signifies that some of the early Nodite rulers (immediate descendants of the Prince's staff) did live longer than their later-day successors and also indicates an effort to stretch the dynasties back to Dalamatia.

The records of such long-lived individuals are also due to the confusion of months and years as time periods. This may also be observed in the Biblical genealogy of Abraham and in the early records of the Chinese. The confusion of the twenty-eight-day month, or season, with the later introduced year of more than three hundred and fifty days is responsible for the traditions of such long human lives. There are records of a man who lived over nine hundred "years." This period represents not quite seventy years, and such lives were regarded for ages as very long, "threescore years and ten" as such a life span was later designated.

The reckoning of time by the twenty-eight-day month persisted long after the days of Adam. But when the Egyptians undertook to reform the calendar, about seven thousand years ago, they did it with great accuracy, introducing the year of 365 days.



Still, it says Adam lived for 530 years (page 852), and I'm still thinking that some of his descendants with a lot of the violet blood were long-lived.

Also, the UB says that they used our 365 1/4 day system in reckoning time:

Quote:
IN PRESENTING excerpts from the archives of Jerusem for the records of Urantia respecting its antecedents and early history, we are directed to reckon time in terms of current usage--the present leap-year calendar of 3651/4 days to the year. As a rule, no attempt will be made to give exact years, though they are of record. We will use the nearest whole numbers as the better method of presenting these historic facts. (page 651, first sentence, old book)


Love to all,

Stacey

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Yes, there are a number of ways that time is presented in the book. The reference you've given here explains how the revelators present dates when they're revealing them and is unrelated to how ancient humans measured time. The reference I used says that a 365 day year reckoning of the passage of time wasn't in use until the Egyptians instituted it 7,000 years ago. You can therefore assume then that any dates between 5,000 BC. and the time of Adam and Eve at 38,000 years ago (as well as the period before Adam and Eve except that there are no historical records of that period) used a term like "time period" which has been mis-translated from ancient tablets into "year" giving the kings of antiquity very long life spans. Ancient humans measured dates in 28 day time periods -- there was no concept of a "year" yet, a concept defined by Adam and Eve but lost shortly after their death and not reintroduced until the Egyptians did so. Dates between 5,000 BC and 36,000 B.C, if found in written records, will most likely be off by a factor of 12.
Larry


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p1123:1 102:4.1 Because of the presence in your minds of the Thought Adjuster, it is no more of a mystery for you to know the mind of God than for you to be sure of the consciousness of knowing any other mind, human or superhuman. Religion and social consciousness have this in common: They are predicated on the consciousness of other-mindness. The technique whereby you can accept another's idea as yours is the same whereby you may "let the mind which was in Christ be also in you."


Last edited by Bonita on Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:55 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Good catch Iris!
I wonder if the fusers (Enoch & Co) did have adjusters with pre-experience! Just like the Master had the Adjuster who had lived thru MACHIVENTA MELCHIZEDEK.
Hey Guys! CHECK THIS LINE OUT!
I was using Stacy's thread & came accross this:

And so Cain departed for the land of Nod, east of the second Eden. He became a great leader among one group of his father's people and did, to a certain degree, fulfill the predictions of Serapatatia, for he did promote peace between this division of the Nodites and the Adamites throughout his lifetime. Cain married Remona, his distant cousin, and their first son, Enoch, became the head of the Elamite Nodites. And for hundreds of years the Elamites and the Adamites continued to be at peace.

So Enoch must have been at least a couple of hundreds of years old when he graduated!
Cool stuff...
Al


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Hi Iris,

You wrote: Another thing to consider is that mankind at that time was forced to relate to others and turn to God more frequently for answers. Trust in a higher power is much more likely if there is no other power, like the government or church, to satisfy your needs. It's likely that people relied on others most intimately for their well-being which would encourage the growth of love and compassion as well as all the other fruits of the spirit, at least in their own tribe.

I agree with the development of love, compassion, and fruits of the spirit in a tribal setting but I think it's a misconception to believe that humans in general in those long gone ages turned to any kind of deity that we would recognize. The general God concept was pretty primitive up until the time of the Hebrews, and their concept of God focused on a volcano yet that became the cornerstone for the advent of true religion. The evolution of the concept of God, through the ghost dream to ghost fear, superstition, magic, and luck took hundreds of thousands of years, with a brief blip while Adam and Eve were present and then again submerged for further tens of thousands of years. Certainly along the way individuals plugged into a real spiritual connection as exemplified by the children of Adam and Eve and by Enoch but it's my impression that the spiritual concepts of the majority of humanity, if existent at all, were pretty bleak.
Larry


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p1133:1 103:4.1 The characteristic difference between a social occasion and a religious gathering is that in contrast with the secular the religious is pervaded by the atmosphere of communion. In this way human association generates a feeling of fellowship with the divine, and this is the beginning of group worship. Partaking of a common meal was the earliest type of social communion, and so did early religions provide that some portion of the ceremonial sacrifice should be eaten by the worshipers. Even in Christianity the Lord's Supper retains this mode of communion. The atmosphere of the communion provides a refreshing and comforting period of truce in the conflict of the self-seeking ego with the altruistic urge of the indwelling spirit Monitor. And this is the prelude to true worship—the practice of the presence of God which eventuates in the emergence of the brotherhood of man.


Last edited by Bonita on Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:06 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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p1139:6 103:7.14 There is a real proof of spiritual reality in the presence of the Thought Adjuster, but the validity of this presence is not demonstrable to the external world, only to the one who thus experiences the indwelling of God. The consciousness of the Adjuster is based on the intellectual reception of truth, the supermind perception of goodness, and the personality motivation to love.


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Reading this thread from the first this came to mind...I read it today...it's one of my favorites when I come across it...

p1739:2 156:5.7 Forceful ambition, intelligent judgment, and seasoned wisdom are the essentials of material success. Leadership is dependent on natural ability, discretion, will power, and determination. Spiritual destiny is dependent on faith, love, and devotion to truth—hunger and thirst for righteousness—the wholehearted desire to find God and to be like him.

p1739:3 156:5.8 Do not become discouraged by the discovery that you are human. Human nature may tend toward evil, but it is not inherently sinful. Be not downcast by your failure wholly to forget some of your regrettable experiences. The mistakes which you fail to forget in time will be forgotten in eternity. Lighten your burdens of soul by speedily acquiring a long-distance view of your destiny, a universe expansion of your career.

p1739:4 156:5.9 Make not the mistake of estimating the soul's worth by the imperfections of the mind or by the appetites of the body. Judge not the soul nor evaluate its destiny by the standard of a single unfortunate human episode. Your spiritual destiny is conditioned only by your spiritual longings and purposes.

Bring me peace in my soul...Aloha

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Larry,

Do you think Adam lived 530 years based on the 365 day year?

Iris, what do you think?

Tootsie, thanks for the great quotes to decorate our discussion with.

If Enoch was Cain's son, and Adam and Eve's grandson, he wouldn't have been primitive at all. The Bible records though that the Enoch who fused was about 7 generations down the line from Adam.

Here is a tribute to the Book of Enoch from the UB:

Quote:
126:3.8 While turning all these problems over in his mind, he (Jesus) found in the synagogue library at Nazareth, among the apocalyptic books which he had been studying, this manuscript called "The Book of enoch"; and though he was certain that it had not been written by enoch of old, it proved very intriguing to him, and he read and reread it many times. There was one passage which particularly impressed him, a passage in which this term "Son of Man" appeared. The writer of this so-called Book of enoch went on to tell about this Son of Man, describing the work he would do on earth and explaining that this Son of Man, before coming down on this earth to bring salvation to mankind, had walked through the courts of heavenly glory with his Father, the Father of all; and that he had turned his back upon all this grandeur and glory to come down on earth to proclaim salvation to needy mortals. As Jesus would read these passages (well understanding that much of the Eastern mysticism which had become admixed with these teachings was erroneous), he responded in his heart and recognized in his mind that of all the Messianic predictions of the Hebrew scriptures and of all the theories about the Jewish deliverer, none was so near the truth as this story tucked away in this only partially accredited Book of enoch; and he then and there decided to adopt as his inaugural title "the Son of Man." And this he did when he subsequently began his public work. Jesus had an unerring ability for the recognition of truth, and truth he never hesitated to embrace, no matter from what source it appeared to emanate.


If anyone wants to read the Book of Enoch, here it is:

http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/eth ... index.html

Love to all,

Stacey

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Hi Stacey,

I don't dispute any of the dates and ages given by TUB -- they're given to us for a reason. Those connected with the life force from the Prince's staff, Adam and Eve and their immediate children -- they all lived the abnormally long lives the book says they did. However, the book also tells us that the other abnormally long lives supposedly lived by evolutionary mortals, as recorded in our ancient writings, were based on a primitive reckoning of time and are therefore inflated -- as the 3 paragraphs quoted above explain.
Larry


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Larry,

I'm glad we got that cleared up.

I noticed that in your writing, you estimated that the Enoch who fused was here around 30,000 years ago. That would line up with about 7 generations down from Adam as the Bible records in Genesis 5. So do you think that's the Enoch who fused, and not the Enoch who was the son of Cain?

Love to all,

Stacey

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Hi Stacey --
I don't think TUB makes that clear so it would be conjecture one way or the other. Like there are multiple Isaiah's and Mary's in the Bible there are probably multiple Enoch's in historical records as well.
Larry


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p1142:2 103:9.11 Faith leads to knowing God, not merely to a mystical feeling of the divine presence. Faith must not be overmuch influenced by its emotional consequences. True religion is an experience of believing and knowing as well as a satisfaction of feeling.


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