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An open forum for general discussions of a spiritual nature where guests and readers entertain the teachings of The Urantia Book.
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:05 am +0000

The Urantia Papers may look to be a difficult and cumbersome task to read, but I can guarantee WHEN you are ready to read it you will not be able to put it down.

Debbie (and I'm not sure how anyone knows your name since you don't sign your posts), "a day is as a thousand years in God's sight".

2:2.2 There is finality of completeness and perfection of repleteness in the mandates of the Father. "Whatsoever God does, it shall be forever; nothing can be added to it nor anything taken from it." The Universal Father does not repent of his original purposes of wisdom and perfection. His plans are steadfast, his counsel immutable, while his acts are divine and infallible. "A thousand years in his sight are but as yesterday when it is past and as a watch in the night." The perfection of divinity and the magnitude of eternity are forever beyond the full grasp of the circumscribed mind of mortal man.

Your concept of a thousand years is based on your perception of time. There is no "time" as we know it, in eternity. Another place it says that those who sleep will awaken at the next dispensation and it will be as if they were asleep for 5 days.

1000 years, in other words, is like a blink of time... and if you are concerned about not being of service to your Father, then I would suggest you start NOW and be of service.

Yes Larry it does make a difference, at leat to me. That is thousands of years that I was not of service to my Father, WHY, I don't want to wait a thousand years to be of service. It may not matter to you, but it does to me, that is why I ask what would make the difference between advancing after death and waiting for a very long tiime.

Why do you feel you have to WAIT?

30:4.4 2. Sleeping Survivors. All mortals of survival status, in the custody of personal guardians of destiny, pass through the portals of natural death and, on the third period, personalize on the mansion worlds. Those accredited beings who have, for any reason, been unable to attain that level of intelligence mastery and endowment of spirituality which would entitle them to personal guardians, cannot thus immediately and directly go to the mansion worlds. Such surviving souls must rest in unconscious sleep until the judgment day of a new epoch, a new dispensation, the coming of a Son of God to call the rolls of the age and adjudicate the realm, and this is the general practice throughout all Nebadon. It was said of Christ Michael that, when he ascended on high at the conclusion of his work on earth, "He led a great multitude of captives." And these captives were the sleeping survivors from the days of Adam to the day of the Master's resurrection on Urantia.

30:4.5 The passing of time is of no moment to sleeping mortals; they are wholly unconscious and oblivious to the length of their rest. On reassembly of personality at the end of an age, those who have slept five thousand years will react no differently than those who have rested five days. Aside from this time delay these survivors pass on through the ascension regime identically with those who avoid the longer or shorter sleep of death.

30:4.6 These dispensational classes of world pilgrims are utilized for group morontia activities in the work of the local universes. There is a great advantage in the mobilization of such enormous groups; they are thus kept together for long periods of effective service.

113:2.1 Seraphim are not known as guardians of destiny until such time as they are assigned to the association of a human soul who has realized one or more of three achievements: has made a supreme decision to become Godlike, has entered the third circle, or has been mustered into one of the reserve corps of destiny.

So, my suggestion again is, seek him early and you shall find Him and desire to serve Him in this life without waiting until the next!


Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:09 am +0000

Just want to encourage you to keep on seeking God.To some it comes in an instant , to others a liftime. Gods spirit is working in you or you would'nt be here.

194:3.13 Up to Pentecost, religion had revealed only man seeking for God; since Pentecost, man is still searching for God, but there shines out over the world the spectacle of God also seeking for man and sending his spirit to dwell within him when he has found him.

I think he's already found you and you him. Love Him so much that every breathe you take every beat of your heart is His. Trust him and your faith will grow and you will find his peace.Read your UB . Sometimes it's hard I know but a little effort can go a long way. Remember to love always.


Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:00 am +0000

"And it is not so much what mind comprehends as what mind desires to comprehend that insures survival; it is not so much what mind is like as what mind is striving to be like that constitutes spirit identification. It is not so much that man is conscious of God as that man yearns for God that results in universe ascension. What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day and in eternity." p1216:6  111:1.5

"Your short sojourn on Urantia, on this sphere of mortal infancy, is only a single link, the very first in the long chain that is to stretch across universes and through the eternal ages. It is not so much what you learn in this first life; it is the experience of living this life that is important. Even the work of this world, paramount though it is, is not nearly so important as the way in which you do this work. There is no material reward for righteous living, but there is profound satisfaction—consciousness of achievement—and this transcends any conceivable material reward." p435:7 39:4.14

"One of the most important things in human living is to find out what Jesus believed, to discover his ideals, and to strive for the achievement of his exalted life purpose. Of all human knowledge, that which is of greatest value is to know the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it." 2090:04
Last edited by Bonita on Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:46 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.


Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:19 pm +0000

Iris wrote:Debbie,

Since Pentecost everyone with a Thought Adjuster is able to proceed directly to the Mansion Worlds upon death provided they have not permanently and irrevocably defaulted on the ascension plan.

"On Urantia the establishment of this "new and living way" was a matter of fact as well as of truth. The isolation of Urantia in the Lucifer rebellion had suspended the procedure whereby mortals can pass, upon death, directly to the shores of the mansion worlds. Before the days of Christ Michael on Urantia all souls slept on until the dispensational or special millennial resurrections. Even Moses was not permitted to go over to the other side until the occasion of a special resurrection, the fallen Planetary Prince, Caligastia, contesting such a deliverance. But ever since the day of Pentecost, Urantia mortals again may proceed directly to the morontia spheres." p596:3 52:5.5

So relax, you will not be stuck for thousands of years awaiting the next resurrection roll call.

Wow Iris!

I’ve never seen that passage in that light before! So, do you think we will be able to go DIRECTLY (do not pass Go, Do not take $200.00) to the Mansion worlds upon Graduation? I never thought that I would qualify for immediate promotion!

But, there are still sleeping survivors amongst us, aren’t there? I mean, when I read the passages on personality survival (and I just did about 2 weeks ago), I did not get the feeling that all mortals living upon this planet were going to get the old “three days and UP!” routine. Doesn’t the Urantia book still say that many mortals will join the ranks of the sleeping survivors and awaken at the next dispensation?? Please help here, because this is kind of a 180-degree turnabout from what I have had held in my cherished preconceptions.


Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:17 pm +0000

p1095:3 100:1.8 Religious habits of thinking and acting are contributory to the economy of spiritual growth. One can develop religious predispositions toward favorable reaction to spiritual stimuli, a sort of conditioned spiritual reflex. Habits which favor religious growth embrace cultivated sensitivity to divine values, recognition of religious living in others, reflective meditation on cosmic meanings, worshipful problem solving, sharing one's spiritual life with one's fellows, avoidance of selfishness, refusal to presume on divine mercy, living as in the presence of God. The factors of religious growth may be intentional, but the growth itself is unvaryingly unconscious.
Last edited by Bonita on Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:52 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:30 pm +0000

Although we are not, in our own strength, able to do so, we are required by the Father to "be perfect even as He is perfect". So YES, we are instructed, by Jesus, to live a God-like life. Sorry, Debbie, but we are not talking about a life that starts AFTER the death of our material bodies... LIFE in Him begins NOW... If you insist on lowering yourself to the level of those who are making an attempt to ascend by intellectual knowledge and not by spiritual experience, then YES, you may well sleep that thousand years.

140:5.3 Jesus did not expect his followers to achieve an impossible manifestation of brotherly love, but he did expect them to so strive to be like God—to be perfect even as the Father in heaven is perfect—that they could begin to look upon man as God looks upon his creatures and therefore could begin to love men as God loves them -

140:6.3 " I demand of you a righteousness that shall exceed the righteousness of those who seek to obtain the Father's favor by almsgiving, prayer, and fasting. If you would enter the kingdom, you must have a righteousness that consists in love, mercy, and truth—the sincere desire to do the will of my Father in heaven. "

Sometimes we may not like to hear the truth, but the truth is, God does command us to be as He is and it begins in this life, not the next...

The more you seek Him, the more you will desire to be like Him... the more you love Him, the more you will be like Him... the more you are like Him, the more you will love your fellow man... this is His command.

1:7.2 Man does not achieve union with God as a drop of water might find unity with the ocean. Man attains divine union by progressive reciprocal spiritual communion, by personality intercourse with the personal God, by increasingly attaining the divine nature through wholehearted and intelligent conformity to the divine will. Such a sublime relationship can exist only between personalities.

5:1.6 If mortal man is wholeheartedly spiritually motivated, unreservedly consecrated to the doing of the Father's will, then, since he is so certainly and so effectively spiritually endowed by the indwelling and divine Adjuster, there cannot fail to materialize in that individual's experience the sublime consciousness of knowing God and the supernal assurance of surviving for the purpose of finding God by the progressive experience of becoming more and more like him.

Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:33 am +0000


I reached the same conclusions that you did--that not everyone gets to be resurrected in 3 days, that we normally have to reach circle 3 for that to happen.

I think Iris's quotes are showing that before Pentecost, no one got to go on in 3 days, not even someone as advanced as Moses was able to. Now everyone has the opportunity to go on in 3 days, but the quotes are not saying that everyone will.

Also, I think acquiring knowledge (along with spiritual experience) is part of the game for many reasons, but here's just 2 quotes:

26:5.4 This course of achievement is quantitative, qualitative, and experiential—intellectual, spiritual, and supreme.

110:6.18 The mastery of the cosmic circles is related to the quantitative growth of the morontia soul, the comprehension of supreme meanings. But the qualitative status of this immortal soul is wholly dependent on the grasp of living faith upon the Paradise-potential fact-value that mortal man is a son of the eternal God. Therefore does a seventh circler go on to the mansion worlds to attain further quantitative realization of cosmic growth just as does a second or even a first circler.

We don't need knowledge to ensure survival, but we need it to keep climbing the circles.

Love to all,


Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:15 am +0000

Though the cosmic circles of personality growth must eventually be attained, if, through no fault of your own, the accidents of time and the handicaps of material existence prevent your mastering these levels on your native planet, if your intentions and desires are of survival value, there are issued the decrees of probation extension. You will be afforded additional time in which to prove yourself.

If ever there is doubt as to the advisability of advancing a human identity to the mansion worlds, the universe governments invariably rule in the personal interests of that individual; they unhesitatingly advance such a soul to the status of a transitional being, while they continue their observations of the emerging morontia intent and spiritual purpose. Thus divine justice is certain of achievement, and divine mercy is accorded further opportunity for extending its ministry. 1233:02-03
Last edited by Bonita on Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:52 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:29 am +0000

Stacey wrote:

I reached the same conclusions that you did--that not everyone gets to be resurrected in 3 days, that we normally have to reach circle 3 for that to happen.

I think Iris's quotes are showing that before Pentecost, no one got to go on in 3 days, not even someone as advanced as Moses was able to. Now everyone has the opportunity to go on in 3 days, but the quotes are not saying that everyone will.

Was translation possible before Pentecost? Were Enoch and Elijah of the bible translated?

Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:12 am +0000

Good question, Ysmael.

Yes, they were both translated according to the UB. Maybe translation was still allowed after the Lucifer rebellion, but being able to advance to the mansion worlds in 3 days was no longer allowed? Or is it possible they were here on Earth and translated before the Lucifer rebellion ever took place?

Love to all,


Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:31 am +0000

p1105:2 101:1.5 While religion is not the product of the rationalistic speculations of a material cosmology, it is, nonetheless, the creation of a wholly rational insight which originates in man's mind-experience. Religion is born neither of mystic meditations nor of isolated contemplations, albeit it is ever more or less mysterious and always indefinable and inexplicable in terms of purely intellectual reason and philosophic logic. The germs of true religion originate in the domain of man's moral consciousness, and they are revealed in the growth of man's spiritual insight, that faculty of human personality which accrues as a consequence of the presence of the God-revealing Thought Adjuster in the God-hungry mortal mind.
Last edited by Bonita on Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:54 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:10 pm +0000

This is a topic I'd given some thought to some while back -- I'd started to write my impressions then but didn't feel like I'd captured my thoughts very well and quit. I've brushed a bit of the dust off and for what it's worth, here's what I was contemplating....

"Enoch, the first of the mortals of Urantia to fuse with the Thought Adjuster during the mortal life in the flesh."

How disturbing is that? Someone we would consider primitive by today's standards has done what none of us will do — fused during their earth life. I've had the benefit of 3 epochal revelations and a number of organized religions and inspired individuals to motivate me and guide my thoughts. What did Enoch have, living somewhere in the era of 30,000 B.C.? In North or South America there were sabre-toothed tigers and wooly mammoths; Europe had its cave bears and in Asia were large lions and wolves and other large creatures. An active ice age was still in progress producing extreme weather conditions. Life was in constant struggle with the elements.

I've experienced the advent of television, computers, air travel, rocketry, sending men to the moon, advanced mathematics, and other things that would never have entered Enoch's mind. Possibly I know more about science, religion, and philosphy than Enoch ever dreamed yet Enoch fused and I won't. Why?

By fusing, Enoch bypassed the remedial mansion world experience, bypassing corrective experience in sex life, family association, and parental function on the first mansion world; the removal of all phases of intellectual conflict and mental disharmony on the second mansion world; the great personal and social achievement, positive educational work to become part of the new culture and the real introduction to the intelligent comprehension of cosmic meanings and universe interrelationships of the third mansion world; not requiring an introduction to the demands and delights of the true social life of the morontia existence and a social order based on the understanding sympathy of mutual appreciation, the unselfish love of mutual service, and the overmastering motivation of the realization of our common and supreme destiny, becoming self-conscious of God-knowing, God-revealing, God-seeking, and God-finding which the fourth mansion world provides.

Presumably Enoch would have bypassed all of this initial remedial training and been translated directly to the fifth mansion world where he began perfecting the language of the system, becoming bilingual in the system and universe languages; where he met and participated in preparatory education for existence at the next higher levels and where a real birth of cosmic consciousness occurs. The things Enoch bypassed will still be important for me to experience, but he didn't require them. Why?

One answer could be that in the evolution of the Supreme knowing about or understandings these issues was unimportant to the mortals of that long-ago time where they're now part of the stream of consciousness in which we exist. We're expected to know more, understand more, believe more because on this world the evolution of the Supreme requires a greater stretch of awareness than it did during Enoch's time, just as it will require greater understanding, deeper love, more compassion, higher values as the era of light and life approaches. Life's an evolutionary process — it would have been just as challenging for Enoch to fuse is it is for me but perhaps if we were transported back to that time most of us would readily be fusion candidates.

Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:58 pm +0000


That was facinating--thanks for sharing it.

I think the reason Enoch fused is because he lived a lot longer than people do nowadays. According to the Bible, Enoch lived to be 365 years old (Genesis 5:23) The UB says that Adamson lived to be 396 years, which does confirm that people used to live longer ( page 862, first sentence on old book). The UB says that once a planet reaches one of the stages of light and life, when many people are translated, that the average age usually climbs to about 300.

But the UB says Elijah was here in the 10th century before Christ (p1064:2 97:2.1), so I wouldn't think he would have lived that long.

Love to all,


Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:23 pm +0000

Hi Stacey,

Good point, but TUB indicates that the recording of long life spans is a misconception, except where beings outside the flow of evolution were concerned. The Bible does say some of the prophets lived very long lives -- TUB indicates that the span of those long lives should most likely be divided by 12. I think we decided in our study group that one of our members was older than Methusela.

The time measurement of these days was the lunar month, this period being reckoned as twenty-eight days. That, with the exception of day and night, was the only time reckoning known to the early peoples. The seven-day week was introduced by the Dalamatia teachers and grew out of the fact that seven was one fourth of twenty-eight. The significance of the number seven in the superuniverse undoubtedly afforded them opportunity to introduce a spiritual reminder into the common reckoning of time. But there is no natural origin for the weekly period.
The records of such long-lived individuals are also due to the confusion of months and years as time periods. This may also be observed in the Biblical genealogy of Abraham and in the early records of the Chinese. The confusion of the twenty-eight-day month, or season, with the later introduced year of more than three hundred and fifty days is responsible for the traditions of such long human lives. There are records of a man who lived over nine hundred "years." This period represents not quite seventy years, and such lives were regarded for ages as very long, "threescore years and ten" as such a life span was later designated.
The reckoning of time by the twenty-eight-day month persisted long after the days of Adam. But when the Egyptians undertook to reform the calendar, about seven thousand years ago, they did it with great accuracy, introducing the year of 365 days. (77:2.10-12)


Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:22 pm +0000

Man, this is only the coolest thread ever!

Do we have great conversations here or what!

Could Ol’ Enoch actually have lived so long?? I must have missed that part in the Uranita Book, the one about him fusing? Could you tell me where that part is? Who was Enoch, anyways?

At any rate, if Enoch was a direct line descendent of Adamic stock, could he no have lived to such a long age? Or did he live too late, and was he of such mixed blood (Andite and Sangik) that he did not share the longevity of his ancestors. The part in the UB where they talk of the Sumerians, and how the oldest kings had lives that actually were hundreds of years long. Was Enoch of that era?

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