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Interesting... I see we have a few persons here that have history with one another,..thus causing knee jerk reactions to humorous statements and feeding old arguments.

My first thought to this is to ask if personal issues are felt so strongly to be brought up, that they use private posting method of mail boxes to up hold the integrity of the thread, and not divert it from its topic.

____________________________

As to the course of the topic..I ask we focus on healing words not landmine words, Of course I mean to say that the person writing is aware of what they are saying and knows they will get a reaction of ill intent. Not accusing any one, just laying the grown for the future postings from here on out.

We have much to learn from one another, and that can only be accomplished if we are open to accepting the differences in each of us. yes we have experiences we interpate to justify our stand-points, but for this discussion i see the U.B. setting some clear guidelines for us... Yes yes ..i know we also interpate the book differently, and I am ok with that.

I would love to see the paragraphs that lead one to think one way or another so to provide me with new insights into this amazing book. at the same time we can respectfully challenge each other to see some miss-understanding with the manor in which the book is written, I enjoy that kind of dialogue as long as persons are respectful and not self-righteous, offering not telling, purposing not demanding. we can grow to gather.

_____________________________________

As to feelings.

I worked with teens and adults and saw a simple division between survival skills and living skills that fit all human interactions.

( that is out side mental illness, Oraganic or other wise)


If some one has trust issues they tend to be on guard all the time and interpate every thing through there filters of survival.

There are also issues of living with guilt and shame that get in the way of seeing life for what it is instead of the way they feel it every day.

It is this that i want to explore and see us grow to become better ambassadors of Christs message to this planet.

We have a gift and to shear it requires us being willing to give up our pains and hurts to truly shares Gods love.

We humans find comfort zone in our existences that keep us just shy of truly doing God will and those comfort zones can be over come but with some work in the realm of feeling uncomfortable...lol can't be helped.

True Growth has a degree of pain.

We humans protect our insecurity's by heightening one of our attributes over the perceived weakness.

example: Some focus one there physical strength to never feel less than again, others have developed there beauty to it's fullest extent, while some have compensated with intellect to over power others to feel safe in a world that does not feel so safe.

We humans have taken FEELINGs to a all time new expression of how to guide our life's that dose not really serve our highest goals.

We are handicapped by this and i have worked long and hard to help my clients to over come these issues. and the one thing that seems to be a turning point is when they begin to see the pattern of repeatable experiences they did not like the outcome to.

constant Conflicts of all variety are a sign of this.
A lack of patience, tolerance, understanding, and of course unconditional love. :)

We all have room to grow. so i ask you all to look inside and see if there is not some pattern and begin a discourse to letting it got and replacing it with the tools of Living instead of surviving.

Accepting Life on life's terms and seeing where we can be an aid to the journey of growth not a ego injured reactionary.

As spirit moves a person their will be evidence in ones life that represents that transformation and there life will be filled with human interactions that glorify the relationship between them and God.

having a good friend to hold intimate conversation about deep issues and feeling safe to discus these things is vital to ones growth, if no one friend is that person, than a counselor or therapist should be sought out. every thing to gain and nothing of real worth to loose.

Gods Blessing to every one.

and Stay True To The Journey


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Howdy, folks.

Well said, Jim. Thank you. O:)

Peace,
Arc


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"While divine or spiritual insight is a gift, human wisdom must evolve." 1109:03


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Jim thank you so much for your guidance and care to keep this thread on track as everyone here is adding so much care and value to it with their input. I’m indented to all for the intelligent sharing going on. You wrote:
Quote:
Look at the over whelming cases of abuse in our society. Drinking and drugging are many time a cases of wanting to change the way a person feels. Cutting, Sex, Gambling, you name it there are many forms of inappropriate actions that persona act out as a result of there interpretations of feelings.

Some of the “escapes” or pursuits you described that people use to ease their anxiety or fears of Survival or Stagnation, Like those that Arc so warmly and charismatically describes in his perceived “hollow life”, which are graciously defined and reflected upon by Iris and diligently and watchfully kept in the focus of the thread and site by Larry, seemed to be touched upon in this excerpt. See what you think.

Quote:
111:4.3 The advances of true civilization are all born in this inner world of mankind. It is only the inner life that is truly creative. Civilization can hardly progress when the majority of the youth of any generation devote their interests and energies to the materialistic pursuits of the sensory or outer world.

111:4.4 The inner and the outer worlds have a different set of values. Any civilization is in jeopardy when three quarters of its youth enter materialistic professions and devote themselves to the pursuit of the sensory activities of the outer world. Civilization is in danger when youth neglect to interest themselves in ethics, sociology, eugenics, philosophy, the fine arts, religion, and cosmology.


Thank You Iris and Jim for these answers. It may have immediate value in the experience of my Daughter and myself.
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Do you know if there are any schools of thought inPsychology that use that dynamic in treatment?

ris: Yeah, it's called cognitive therapy.

Jim: And Joer i thing that the relatively new researchers in the growing field of Emotional Intelligence would fit your question.


May The Sweet Love of Jesus pour over us of this thread and site. Amen/Awomen

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Thanks for bringing up the inner and outer world Joer. TUB has some interesting quotes concerning that.

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When man approaches the study and examination of his universe from the outside, he brings into being the various physical sciences; when he approaches the research of himself and the universe from the inside, he gives origin to theology and metaphysics. The later art of philosophy develops in an effort to harmonize the many discrepancies which are destined at first to appear between the findings and teachings of these two diametrically opposite avenues of approaching the universe of things and beings.

Religion has to do with the spiritual viewpoint, the awareness of the insideness of human experience. Man's spiritual nature affords him the opportunity of turning the universe outside in. It is therefore true that, viewed exclusively from the insideness of personality experience, all creation appears to be spiritual in nature.

When man analytically inspects the universe through the material endowments of his physical senses and associated mind perception, the cosmos appears to be mechanical and energy-material. Such a technique of studying reality consists in turning the universe inside out.

A logical and consistent philosophic concept of the universe cannot be built up on the postulations of either materialism or spiritism, for both of these systems of thinking, when universally applied, are compelled to view the cosmos in distortion, the former contacting with a universe turned inside out, the latter realizing the nature of a universe turned outside in. Never, then, can either science or religion, in and of themselves, standing alone, hope to gain an adequate understanding of universal truths and relationships without the guidance of human philosophy and the illumination of divine revelation.

Always must man's inner spirit depend for its expression and self-realization upon the mechanism and technique of the mind. Likewise must man's outer experience of material reality be predicated on the mind consciousness of the experiencing personality. Therefore are the spiritual and the material, the inner and the outer, human experiences always correlated with the mind function and conditioned, as to their conscious realization, by the mind activity. Man experiences matter in his mind; he experiences spiritual reality in the soul but becomes conscious of this experience in his mind. The intellect is the harmonizer and the ever-present conditioner and qualifier of the sum total of mortal experience. Both energy-things and spirit values are colored by their interpretation through the mind media of consciousness. 1135:4-1136:1


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Thank you Iris.

In my early days of walking with a spiritual mindedness, I remember the Hunger to search out more and more information, I was changing, and wanting, i could not stop this momentum i was on because it felt so right, yet my actions were erratic and undisciplined.

I have strong energy's in me i could not control and I reacted many times with extreme highs and wonder lust to all that i was doing and wanted to do.

I enrolled in to a community collage and even there i was to hyper and self determined of my own imaginings that every thing i did had to fit my interpretations of what I was going through... Yes there was some great spiritual leading going on in a way that i had never had it before and i began to see thing that i had never seen before, but I was still attempting to control it. to shape my understanding of it.

It was not until i walked in-to a twelve step program and began to let some one or group open my mind to my self destructive and the many control issues i had that I truly began to have epiphany's and insights that i could take action on to re-shape my life and become a better tool for Gods work. until than i did not really know how to be of service to others, with out it being of my own design.

I went through layers of transformation in those groups and with my sponsor, and they are still going on these 24 years later, so much so that i still see room for growth and character defects to work on. i am humbled and teachable, and yes my ego finds room in my head from time to time.

I have to teach it to be a part of the journey and not do as i attempted to do in the early day , which was to kill it...you can not kill apart of your self, but you can invite it to come along on the journey and transform with you... this was a big braking point for me, and much strides where made as a result.

I have made better connections in my mind..soul..spirit than ever before..as a result of letting some one guild me trough the minefield of my emotions and feelings.

My greatest challenge these days is this chemical changes that has accrued in me as a result of reaching an age that as a younger man thought i would never reach.... :)

I mean to say i deal with... from time to time, with depression, and according to all the research it is not uncommon for persons after age forty to go through biological changes that we have to adapt to,... they say it will pass and most over come it in there late forty's early fifty's.... well I'm 47 at the end of this year. and can't wait for this chemical change to be done...lol

But it has not stopped me from wanting to continue to grow spiritually and invision the many ways my life can be of service in this world be fore i leave it... :)
I see it as just one more of many challenges that are shaping me into a better tool for God to us. So as I keep saying I will just...

Stay True To The Journey


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Gerdean wrote:
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I am reminded that FEELINGS are an extension of the Universe Mother Spirit through the circuits of the seven adjutant mind spirits. The spirit of intuition, for example, is a FEELING. If it were not for that FEELING, we would have all died off before the age of frogs. The survival instinct is a real thing. While it is true that
Quote:
"While the mind is not the seat of the spiritual nature, it is indeed the gateway thereto." (P.1733 - §1),

logic is not the answer to all of life's questions.

The adjutants provide us with FEELINGS other than instinct, such as the impulse of co-ordinating what we know from experience with what is presented; the urge to stand up for what we believe in; the curiosity-mother lure of adventure and discovery; the social urge to hang out with like-minded people; the feeling of awe and adoration; the sense that we have learned something, the FEELING of triumph and accomplishment.

Naturally we cannot let our FEELINGS be our only guide, but they are there for a reason and cannot be overlooked, ignored, or dissed as merely FEELINGS simply because they are not logical thought. They are both necessary on this plane of existence. It takes two to tango.
_________________

Arc wrote:
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An I feel ( :smile: ) we need to recognized that feelings and emotions are not necessarily the same thing. In my personal experience, feelings represent the expressions of my inner resources, and they originate in my adjutant spirits, my Thought Adjuster, and the Spirit of Truth. Emotions are reactions to experience.

Iris wrote:
Quote:
Feelings are physiologic impulses derived from interaction with the environment.

Emotions are states of mind which result according to how feelings are interpreted and integrated.

Logic is a means of reasoning by which we use to interpret and integrate our feelings before deciding, consciously or unconsciously, what emotion to assign to them.
Arc wrote:
Quote:
And I believe that the voices of our inner resources most often manifest as feelings.

I'm not sure that is correct, at least according to the way I interpret what you are saying.

I ran across this today and found it interesting because I felt it supported Arc's position, which I felt had been somewhat diminished in outward appearance in subsequent posts. BUT What I also found is that it seemed to offer support for all these positions.
Quote:
103:9.2 Religion has to do with feeling, acting, and living, not merely with thinking. Thinking is more closely related to the material life and should be in the main, but not altogether, dominated by reason and the facts of science and, in its nonmaterial reaches toward the spirit realms, by truth. No matter how illusory and erroneous one's theology, one's religion may be wholly genuine and everlastingly true.

This part seems to support the main thrust of Iris' position.
Quote:
Thinking is more closely related to the material life and should be in the main,

This part seems to support the main intendancy of Arc's position:
Quote:
Religion has to do with feeling, acting, and living, not merely with thinking. ... but not altogether, dominated by reason and the facts of science and, in its nonmaterial reaches toward the spirit realms, by truth. No matter how illusory and erroneous one's theology, one's religion may be wholly genuine and everlastingly true.


And the whole thing seems to support several aspects of Gerdean's position. IMHO. :smile:

my 2 cents worth! :wink:

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Yes, but it is spiritualized thinking which leads us heavenward.
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101:9.8  Religion creates for the human mind a spiritualized consciousness of divine reality based on, and by faith derived from, antecedent concepts of moral values and co-ordinated with superimposed concepts of spiritual values.


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When I read this moment in Christ life (127:2 THE SEVENTEENTH YEAR (A.D. 11) I can't see my self coming out the same way. and he was only 17, ...at 17 I was so emotionally charged i would have killed some in that situation. or just give in and joined.

Not to mention how I would have reacted to my mother if she did to me what his mom did to him at that time, and for him to have the were-with-all to just lay his hand on her shoulder and say ( Mother how could you ) in what I perceive a soft and kind tone of voice. lol

Thee is much to learn about our own mind development in reading how this young Christ evolved into man hood.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
127:2.12 This year Jesus made great progress in the organization of his mind. Gradually he had brought his divine and human natures together, and he accomplished all this organization of intellect by the force of his own decisions and with only the aid of his indwelling Monitor, just such a Monitor as all normal mortals on all postbestowal-Son worlds have within their minds.
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I have been awed by the use and power of Decision,and Choices making ability's we have as human.

the experiences gain as we hold true to them as we make them and the struggles we go through to form them. and the struggle is mostly caused by our 2 natures of feelings and emotions -vs- rational and logical th9inking.
___________________________________
Joer I see you as a spiritual diplomat.. :)

Iris...I wish I had the recall you seem to have and the ease of research you appear to bring to our discussions.

___________________________________

Stay True To The journey


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Jim wrote:
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Joer I see you as a spiritual diplomat..
I try Jim. Jesus was so good at it. I pray for his guidance. :smile: Like today's quote said:
Quote:
It was not so much what Jesus taught about the balanced character that impressed his associates as the fact that his own life was such an eloquent exemplification of his teaching.

Jim wrote:
Quote:
Iris...I wish I had the recall you seem to have and the ease of research you appear to bring to our discussions.


Me too! So much good stuff to share. Thank You Iris.

In regards to Arc's statement:
Quote:
In my personal experience, feelings represent the expressions of my inner resources,


I'm still greatly moved by his expression.

103:1.6 The realization of the recognition of spiritual values is an experience which is superideational. There is no word in any human language which can be employed to designate this " sense, " " feeling, " " intuition, " or " experience " which we have elected to call God-consciousness. The spirit of God that dwells in man is not personal—the Adjuster is prepersonal—but this Monitor presents a value, exudes a flavor of divinity, which is personal in the highest and infinite sense. If God were not at least personal, he could not be conscious, and if not conscious, then would he be infrahuman.

102:3.12 The pursuit of knowledge constitutes science; the search for wisdom is philosophy; the love for God is religion; the hunger for truth is a revelation. But it is the indwelling Thought Adjuster that attaches the feeling of reality to man's spiritual insight into the cosmos.

141:5.2 " In this way you may experience a perfected unity of spirit purpose and spirit understanding growing out of the mutual consciousness of the identity of each of your indwelling Paradise spirits; and you may enjoy all of this profound spiritual unity in the very face of the utmost diversity of your individual attitudes of intellectual thinking, temperamental feeling, and social conduct. Your personalities may be refreshingly diverse and markedly different, while your spiritual natures and spirit fruits of divine worship and brotherly love may be so unified that all who behold your lives will of a surety take cognizance of this spirit identity and soul unity; they will recognize that you have been with me and have thereby learned, and acceptably, how to do the will of the Father in heaven. You can achieve the unity of the service of God even while you render such service in accordance with the technique of your own original endowments of mind, body, and soul

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I like that there is no word on earth to identify this God transformation experience which is felt so profoundly through out all of our senses.


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p28:6 1:5.9 As we see the Universal Father revealed throughout his universe; as we discern him indwelling his myriads of creatures; as we behold him in the persons of his Sovereign Sons; as we continue to sense his divine presence here and there, near and afar, let us not doubt nor question his personality primacy. Notwithstanding all these far-flung distributions, he remains a true person and everlastingly maintains personal connection with the countless hosts of his creatures scattered throughout the universe of universes.


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I like this. It reminds me of you guys here. (I didn't forget Iris, you're still one of the guys in the non-gender spiritual sense. And in the human camaraderie sense. :smile: )

And it brings tears to my eyes because of the Love and Compassion I feel for you all.

Quote:
Your personalities may be refreshingly diverse and markedly different, while
Quote:
your spiritual natures and spirit fruits of divine worship and brotherly love may be so unified that all who behold your lives will of a surety take cognizance of this spirit identity and soul unity; they will recognize that you have been with me and have thereby learned, and acceptably, how to do the will of the Father in heaven.

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Is that not awesome, LOL


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Has anyone seen Paula's interviews on youtube about finding the Urantia Book? There are three parts...and she discusses how she found the Urantia Book from a very human perspective...well done Paula!

part I

part II

part III

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