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J. Barry wrote:
J. Barry wrote:
Exactly, and why is it that we don't give our selves that liberty of freedom in growth.

In my experiences with clients it is because most give to much power to how they feel than what they know.

It is s leap in there minds to free them selves to such a state of belief that they are not there experiences

What we are is not our past but the courage in the moment to do something different and new in our attempt to live up to a higher idea and Ideals.


I'm glad you mistakeningly left this here for me JB. I have a 20 year old daughter who is in this condition. I'm slowly and patiently trying to lead her to the understanding that she is MORE THAN her SAD CONFUSION or undefined SAD FEELINGS. When she's in that state she gets desparate because she BELIEVES that's who she is. And that's ALL that she is.

If you all have a chance to say a prayer for her. Her name is Sara. Thank You. Peace be with you.

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Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


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Coop, it seems you are more than upset and I'll let others judge your behavior but it saddens me that you felt a public outburst was necessary.

To those who are new to this site, this is an example of someone having a bad day and needing to vent his frustrations. We know Cooper as a good soul and hope he finds other UB sites more to his needs. This site is intended as an outreach to those searching for more peace in their lives so we try to minimize personal venting however when one is seeking to be publicly banished then this becomes a personal choice. Coop, I regret your choice and wish you peace Bro. If you wish to ever come back, I'll support you when you decide to forgive and more forward.

All the best, Ray


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Hay Joer:I most assuredly will keep her in my prayers.

I have seen this one fact play out so many time that i wish there was a Work shop focusing on Living through emotional intelligence. or some thing like that.

We humans Start out dependant on how we feel just as all creatures here on this planet, but us humans we have something more we have an inelegances that is capable of amazing leaps in perception and understanding of our environment as well as the persons around us.

When did we decide that our feeling were more important than our rational mind, I believe like all addictions we become addicted to the gratification of feelings and the will and discipline it take to become human in all potential is some how to much work for many in there thinking.

I also believe that if schools taught early on logic and rational thinking that our kids would grow up healthier and more capable of dealing with life's challenges.

I am not saying the we stop feeling, i am saying we must develop and intelligence about how we feel and what it is we actually are feeling, so many have incorrectly identified there feelings to act out inappropriately in life situations.

We human have so far yet to go in our development as Gods children.. :)

We can only Stay Tue To The Journey and hope for the best....lol

Of course we must do our part no matter how small it may seem.


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I'll probably regret entering into an on-going conversation of which I have already missed the most part, but I could not help but notice the remarks about FEELINGS. And again, I might be accused of gender consciousness here, but in view of the fact that the UBook says that
Quote:
"Women seem to have more intuition than men, but they also appear to be somewhat less logical." (P.938 - Section Eight)
I am reminded that FEELINGS are an extension of the Universe Mother Spirit through the circuits of the seven adjutant mind spirits. The spirit of intuition, for example, is a FEELING. If it were not for that FEELING, we would have all died off before the age of frogs. The survival instinct is a real thing. While it is true that
Quote:
"While the mind is not the seat of the spiritual nature, it is indeed the gateway thereto." (P.1733 - §1),
logic is not the answer to all of life's questions.

The adjutants provide us with FEELINGS other than instinct, such as the impulse of co-ordinating what we know from experience with what is presented; the urge to stand up for what we believe in; the curiosity-mother lure of adventure and discovery; the social urge to hang out with like-minded people; the feeling of awe and adoration; the sense that we have learned something, the FEELING of triumph and accomplishment.

Naturally we cannot let our FEELINGS be our only guide, but they are there for a reason and cannot be overlooked, ignored, or dissed as merely FEELINGS simply because they are not logical thought. They are both necessary on this plane of existence. It takes two to tango.

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Howdy, folks.

Interesting conversation.

And I think Gerdean has brought up a very good point. Logic and reason are not the the key to every door. While no doubt they are useful tools, they certainly are not our only tools.

An I feel ( :smile: ) we need to recognized that feelings and emotions are not necessarily the same thing. In my personal experience, feelings represent the expressions of my inner resources, and they originate in my adjutant spirits, my Thought Adjuster, and the Spirit of Truth. Emotions are reactions to experience.

If my adjutant spirits or other inner resources transmit a feeling, say for instance, that I am dealing with an unscrupulous character and should beware, I could respond with the emotion of fear. Or I could respond with the emotion of anger. Or, I could choose to not respond emotionally at all. I can choose to accept the my feelings as appropriate, adopt a stance of caution, and yet be in a very happy emotional state as I deal with this person. Having been given a heads up, through the process of feeling, I have no reason to express unhelpful emotions, as my inner resources have proven time and time again to be reliable and trustworthy guides. And time and again I avoid trouble by acknowledging and acting on these feelings. I don't react to my emotions. Emotions are the reactions.

Since logic is a manipulation of known facts, how can logic take into account the unknown variables that exist in every situation? It can't.

Far more important than mastering logic is the task of learning to hear the voice of our inner spiritual resources, as they have access to information that humans have no way of accessing through our material resources. And I believe that the voices of our inner resources most often manifest as feelings.

Logic and reason have led me astray many times, but I seldom go wrong when I respond appropriately to a feeling.

Two cents worth. 8)

Peace,
Arc


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An effective philosophy of living is formed by a combination of cosmic insight and the total of one's emotional reactions to the social and economic environment. Remember: While inherited urges cannot be fundamentally modified, emotional responses to such urges can be changed; therefore the moral nature can be modified, character can be improved. In the strong character emotional responses are integrated and co-ordinated, and thus is produced a unified personality. Deficient unification weakens the moral nature and engenders unhappiness. 1572:08


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“The divine spirit makes contact with mortal man, not by feelings or emotions, but in the realm of the highest and most spiritualized thinking. It is your thoughts, not your feelings, that lead you Godward. The divine nature may be perceived only with the eyes of the mind. But the mind that really discerns God, hears the indwelling Adjuster, is the pure mind. "Without holiness no man may see the Lord." All such inner and spiritual communion is termed spiritual insight. Such religious experiences result from the impress made upon the mind of man by the combined operations of the Adjuster and the Spirit of Truth as they function amid and upon the ideas, ideals, insights, and spirit strivings of the evolving sons of God.” 1104:06


“Religion lives and prospers, then, not by sight and feeling, but rather by faith and insight. It consists not in the discovery of new facts or in the finding of a unique experience, but rather in the discovery of new and spiritual meanings in facts already well known to mankind. The highest religious experience is not dependent on prior acts of belief, tradition, and authority; neither is religion the offspring of sublime feelings and purely mystical emotions. It is, rather, a profoundly deep and actual experience of spiritual communion with the spirit influences resident within the human mind, and as far as such an experience is definable in terms of psychology, it is simply the experience of experiencing the reality of believing in God as the reality of such a purely personal experience.” 1104:06-1105:01


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Howdy, folks.

Hi, Iris. Good to see you back from your repose. Even if it is to bust my chops. :smile:

So many discussions of important matters are handicapped by a paucity of language. I believe this is such a case. When I say feelings, I am referring to "inner directives". I know for a fact that I am receiving guidance from my inner resources. But these directives almost never manifest as words. In my experience, they manifest as feelings.

Let me give a real life example which may illuminate my point. I believe I have shared it before here at Truthbook, but it is germane to the topic, so I will repeat it here.

By the time I reached my mid twenties, I had achieved a substantial amount of temporal "success". A lucrative job, a beautiful wife, respect of my peers, yada, yada, yada. But as the months went by, my success seemed more and more hollow. To the point where I couldn't bear it any more. To the point where I finally quit my "successful" life and moved to Utah to start all over. Of course, everyone who knew me, especially my family, thought I had gone gone crazy. The fact was, I had recognized the insanity of my life, and was willing to do whatever it took to achieve sanity. Even to the point of leaving everyone and everything behind.

In Utah, I "stumbled" upon a spiritual discipline, and began to practice it. This discipline was not religious in the normal sense of the word. There was no "God" or any of the other trappings of religion. Just the same, the core of this discipline was the the realization that there was something within each of us that had access to all the wisdom of the universe. And that by honing our connection to this "something" within us, each of us could access this wisdom, and use it to faithfully guide us through the trials of daily living, and finally lead us to a fate grander than anyone could imagine.

I had been practicing this discipline for a few years, and had gained complete confidence in it. One day, I walked to the grocery store. I was living in Park City, and was living something of a Bohemian life style. I had no car, and walked pretty much where ever I went. A trip to the grocery store involved a backpack. I was walking home from the store with a backpack full of 40 pounds of groceries. It was four mile walk home, uphill every step of the way, as Park City is a ski town, nestled right up against the mountains. Along the way, about a mile from the store, was the library, a place I loved to frequent. I had no plans of stopping there this day, since I already had a book at home that I was only half way through. Besides, my backpack was full already, and the last thing I needed was a book to make it even heavier. I still had a three mile uphill trudge ahead of me. I had no reason to stop at the library. Stopping at the library was illogical. Just the same, as I neared the library, I began to get a very strong feeling that I should stop there.

My initial thought was to resist this feeling, for the logical reasons I have given above. But as I got nearer the library, the feeling I should stop there got stronger and stronger. Still, I was inclined to walk right by and go straight home with my groceries. But when I got even with the library, the feeling that I should go in became so intense that I deemed it wise to surrender to it. I turned down the sidewalk to the library, and walked right in. My feeling led me up the stairs, where I turned left and where I was then led by this feeling to a particular stack of books, and my eye immediately fell on a rather large blue book. I opened the book without looking at the title and read one paragraph. It made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. I had the instant realization that my feeling had led me to a great treasure. I closed the book and looked at the title. It was called "The Urantia Book".

Needless to say, I marched straight downstairs and checked it out. And I had no regrets as I stuffed this weighty tome into an already overloaded backpack. And no regrets that I had trusted and acted in accord with this feeling. And as they say, the rest is history.

It seems you object to my use of the word "feeling" in this context. Perhaps it is not the appropriate word. But I can't think of a better one. Perhaps you can.

In any case, my personal experience must trump any number of definitions from any book, including "The Urantia Book". Words have their limits, as UB freely admits. And we should be ever careful lest the realities of our experiences become lost in a morass of semantics.

That's all I got for now.

Peace,
Arc


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J. Barry wrote:
Hay Joer:I most assuredly will keep her in my prayers.

I have seen this one fact play out so many time that i wish there was a Work shop focusing on Living through emotional intelligence. or some thing like that.

We humans Start out dependant on how we feel just as all creatures here on this planet, but us humans we have something more we have an inelegances that is capable of amazing leaps in perception and understanding of our environment as well as the persons around us.

When did we decide that our feeling were more important than our rational mind, I believe like all addictions we become addicted to the gratification of feelings and the will and discipline it take to become human in all potential is some how to much work for many in there thinking.

I also believe that if schools taught early on logic and rational thinking that our kids would grow up healthier and more capable of dealing with life's challenges.

I am not saying the we stop feeling, i am saying we must develop and intelligence about how we feel and what it is we actually are feeling, so many have incorrectly identified there feelings to act out inappropriately in life situations.

We human have so far yet to go in our development as Gods children.. :)

We can only Stay Tue To The Journey and hope for the best....lol

Of course we must do our part no matter how small it may seem.


Thanks Jim! This is real good stuff. I can see what your saying real well. I find it interesting in seeing the development of our responses through the animal levels up through intellegence and onto spiritual. BUT I never real thought of that in terms of explaining how someone gets stuck or held back in their development. That's a pretty unique prespective in my experience. Do you know if there are any schools of thought inPsychology that use that dynamic in treatment?

God Bless You brother and ALL my other good friends here. :smile: O:) :o :mrgreen: It's makes me happy. :smile: Anyway I'll get back to read all this good stuff.
Peace be with you.

_________________
Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


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WOW thanks guys for logging on.

Good stuff and Iris you quoted the very quote i was looking for...TY

And yes Arc, we need to redefine what we are talking about if we are going to us the word feeling when it has been used inappropriately to describe the many experiences we have in und3rstanding out reactions to the many stimuli we fact as we grow more conscious of every thing around us.

And Joer i thing that the relatively new researchers in the growing field of Emotional Intelligence would fit your question.

______________________________

Lets start by braking down some concepts.

First basic feeling that we all have experienced as we grow up, ..the need for food the Higher Archie of needs.

Than the emotional bonds we developed of feeling safe or Ok, in out environments. which leads to many survival skills that are so hard for many to let go once they have been well established in ones personality.

Let me give some not so likable examples:

If I feel threatened I respond in aggressive behavior. ( not me just using me as an example..lol) We all have see or met some one that has put his or her fist through the wall out of an emotional reaction...yes.

I have grown up around many that use the term, I felt pissed so I reacted.

Look at the over whelming cases of abuse in our society. Drinking and drugging are many time a cases of wanting to change the way a person feels. Cutting, Sex, Gambling, you name it there are many forms of inappropriate actions that persona act out as a result of there interpretations of feelings.

We also react in kind ways to feeling that are really codependency, but easily masked by our societal mores that justify them.

But through Logic and reason mankind has evolved some very health interpretations of feelings and began the journey for defining what is OK and Not Ok what is Appropriate or not.

As i have grown in spirit i too have experienced something that is more than a feeling but with out a word for it i can see how easy it would be to us he word feelings to describe it.

The book is clear we are evolving and our emotional and logical mind is the field we march on to a higher realm of understanding and experiencing. :)


Keep it going I like this...good stuff


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Sorry Arc.


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No Iris, your prejudice is putting words in my mouth. I don't call the higher communication we receive channelling, fortunetelling, prophesying -- those are specific activities people participate in in an attempt to force that contact. There's a vast difference and distance between higher mind and subconscious mind function.
Larry


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"Are you also hard of understanding? Know you not that every plant which my heavenly Father has not planted shall be rooted up? Turn now your attention to those who would know the truth. You cannot compel men to love the truth. Many of these teachers are blind guides. And you know that, if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the pit. But hearken while I tell you the truth concerning those things which morally defile and spiritually contaminate men. I declare it is not that which enters the body by the mouth or gains access to the mind through the eyes and ears, that defiles the man. Man is only defiled by that evil which may originate within the heart, and which finds expression in the words and deeds of such unholy persons. Do you not know it is from the heart that there come forth evil thoughts, wicked projects of murder, theft, and adulteries, together with jealousy, pride, anger, revenge, railings, and false witness? And it is just such things that defile men, and not that they eat bread with ceremonially unclean hands." 153:87


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p9:10 0:6.8 Mind is a phenomenon connoting the presence-activity of living ministry in addition to varied energy systems; and this is true on all levels of intelligence. In personality, mind ever intervenes between spirit and matter; therefore is the universe illuminated by three kinds of light: material light, intellectual insight, and spirit luminosity.


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God answers man's prayer by giving him an increased revelation of truth, an enhanced appreciation of beauty, and an augmented concept of goodness. Prayer is a subjective gesture, but it contacts with mighty objective realities on the spiritual levels of human experience; it is a meaningful reach by the human for superhuman values. It is the most potent spiritual-growth stimulus. 1002:03


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