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Are women treated different than men on the internet?
Yes 65%  65%  [ 11 ]
No 35%  35%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 17
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Arc, I view Iris's posts as appended learning - teaching - regarding other's posts. Comments by others would be nice, and Gerdean has done so on the new string, and I do like the efficient method of using UB quotes to further edify.

It is my hope that when Iris feels ready to make additional comments, she will do so. She is a student mature in the study of the UB.

All the best, Ray


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Howdy, folks.

Hi, Ray. Please note I did not request additional comments from Iris. None are necessary. Her selection of quotes is quite eloquent in and of itself. So far as comments on another thread goes, well, that's another thread. With a different subject. Asking for comments in this thread that are pertinent to this thread doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.

Hello, Tasneem. When you say that Iris hasn't said anything, she's just using quotes, I am mystified. I know in my own writing, my choice of quotes says quite a lot. Quotes usually say what the writer intends to say, but for a variety of reasons chooses to use a different voice.

So I simply asked the women what they thought Iris was trying to say by the choice of her quotes. And the question is still open.

Hi, Gerdean. You've read a lot in to my question. Too much. :smile: But you did answer the first part of my question. You said you see she and her quotes were in complete support of what the other posters are saying. Thank you for your response.

The point is, I don't see the clear connections you make between her posts and the rest of the comments. And I posited the idea that I was not the only male here that might benefit from a clearer exposition of the connection. Hence the second part of my question. And the question still stands.

Humbly awaiting your replies.

Peace,
Arc


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Hello Arc....

I don't mind Iris quoting atall... !!! O:)

Got to go now...

Take care....

Love Sarah xxx


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Iris wrote:
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You do not have to see alike or feel alike or even think alike in order spiritually to be alike.
Arc wrote:
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So, I guess I'm wondering, are Iris's posts appropriate to the topic at hand, and if so, how?


Howdy Arc. Peace be with you my brother. I think Iris’s posts have been appropriate to the Topic at hand as well as every one else’s posts. I don’t see anything strange or surprising from anyone’s post. Or any particular reason to expect someone other than ourselves to respond to any particular post in any particular manner. It seems like it’s an open discussion with a focus on embracing and listening to ALL women’s views with my particular interest of hoping to learn from it while at same time creating a fertile ground for feminine expression and the fact that TUB has many expressions of the feminine even within it’s explanation of Deity and deity creations.

One of Iris quotes that I picked one line out of above expresses this openness to recognizing and embracing diversity which we are attempting to do I believe in the interaction of this thread especially where it concerns women’s views.

There was one thing I found though that may be relevant to your question. In that same quote of Iris’ speaking of our spiritual growth and unity without necessity of coming from the same perspective, I found at the same time but held off from posting so I could see other’s valuable responses. (Including yours) But now I'll share it here with you Arc and the others who may be interested. Iris’ quote that I’m referring to has a lot to do with the Spirit guiding us from within. And I found this outline of the attenuations of Spirit working within us very interesting.

And most interesting to me was the time factor that the bestowal of the Spirit of Truth about 2000 years ago is the final attenuation in our Spirit endowment. All of which now will continue working on us until our final embrace. I expected their would be more later. But apparently we have all we need NOW to develop our spirituality from now until eternity.

Number 5 and 6 Arc, are Mother Spirit influences and they seem to give us a FULL COMPLIMENT of SPIRIT ENDOWMENT thus making it possible now for us all to complete our FULL spiritual development. I believe we are in a period of development where this recognition and VALUING of the feminine aspects of deity as well as the feminine perspective here on earth will guide us to a fuller understanding of our being and the Being of God.

But what I really want to get back to and I think now is the time. Is what the women have expressed already and what I think has been borne out somewhat already by the men’s posts here. These are the things that men do and say that impede of interfere or fail to recognize the feminine perspective. I think your post Arc, and some of Ray’s and mine have reflected our inability to really embrace and show that we understand what the women have been saying here. I'll get to that later in my next post. It’s just takes so much space to explain.

Thanks for consolidating that quote for me Ray. You’ll have to tell me how you do that. Maybe via PM. God Bless and guide us all.
:smile:
194:2.9 But these mistakes of the intellect in no way interfered with the believer's great progress in growth in spirit. In less than a month after the bestowal of the Spirit of Truth, the apostles made more individual spiritual progress than during their almost four years of personal and loving association with the Master. Neither did this substitution of the fact of the resurrection of Jesus for the saving gospel truth of sonship with God in any way interfere with the rapid spread of their teachings; on the contrary, this overshadowing of Jesus' message by the new teachings about his person and resurrection seemed greatly to facilitate the preaching of the good news.

194:2.10 The term " baptism of the spirit, " which came into such general use about this time, merely signified the conscious reception of this gift of the Spirit of Truth and the personal acknowledgment of this new spiritual power as an augmentation of all spiritual influences previously experienced by God-knowing souls.

194:2.11 Since the bestowal of the Spirit of Truth, man is subject to the teaching and guidance of a threefold spirit endowment: the spirit of the Father, the Thought Adjuster; the spirit of the Son, the Spirit of Truth; the spirit of the Spirit, the Holy Spirit.

194:2.12 In a way, mankind is subject to the double influence of the sevenfold appeal of the universe spirit influences. The early evolutionary races of mortals are subject to the progressive contact of the seven adjutant mind-spirits of the local universe Mother Spirit. As man progresses upward in the scale of intelligence and spiritual perception, there eventually come to hover over him and dwell within him the seven higher spirit influences. And these seven spirits of the advancing worlds are:
1. 194:2.13 The bestowed spirit of the Universal Father—the Thought Adjusters.
2. 194:2.14 The spirit presence of the Eternal Son—the spirit gravity of the universe of universes and the certain channel of all spirit communion.
3. 194:2.15 The spirit presence of the Infinite Spirit—the universal spirit-mind of all creation, the spiritual source of the intellectual kinship of all progressive intelligences.
4. 194:2.16 The spirit of the Universal Father and the Creator Son—the Spirit of Truth, generally regarded as the spirit of the Universe Son.
5. 194:2.17 The spirit of the Infinite Spirit and the Universe Mother Spirit—the Holy Spirit, generally regarded as the spirit of the Universe Spirit.
6. 194:2.18 The mind-spirit of the Universe Mother Spirit—the seven adjutant mind-spirits of the local universe.
7. 194:2.19 The spirit of the Father, Sons, and Spiritsthe new-name spirit of the ascending mortals of the realms after the fusion of the mortal spirit-born soul with the Paradise Thought Adjuster and after the subsequent attainment of the divinity and glorification of the status of the Paradise Corps of the Finality.

194:2.20 And so did the bestowal of the Spirit of Truth bring to the world and its peoples the last of the spirit endowment designed to aid in the ascending search for God.

_________________
Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


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"Upon the completion of a Creator Son's final bestowal the Spirit of Truth previously sent into all Avonal-bestowal worlds of that local universe changes in nature, becoming more literally the spirit of the sovereign Michael. This phenomenon takes place concurrently with the liberation of the Spirit of Truth for service on the Michael-mortal-bestowal planet." 230:02

"Next, the Spirit of Truth came to help the believer to witness to the realities of Jesus' teachings and his life as he lived it in the flesh, and as he now again lives it anew and afresh in the individual believer of each passing generation of the spirit-filled sons of God." 2060:07

"Do not make the mistake of expecting to become strongly intellectually conscious of the outpoured Spirit of Truth. The spirit never creates a consciousness of himself, only a consciousness of Michael, the Son. From the beginning Jesus taught that the spirit would not speak of himself. The proof, therefore, of your fellowship with the Spirit of Truth is not to be found in your consciousness of this spirit but rather in your experience of enhanced fellowship with Michael." 2061:02

"If you will maintain this living spiritual connection with me, you will bear abundant fruit. If you abide in me and my words live in you, you will be able to commune freely with me, and then can my living spirit so infuse you that you may ask whatsoever my spirit wills and do all this with the assurance that the Father will grant us our petition." 1945:04

"Even on Urantia, these seraphim teach the everlasting truth: If your own mind does not serve you well, you can exchange it for the mind of Jesus of Nazareth, who always serves you well." 553:07

"Behold, I stand at the doors of men's hearts and knock, and if any man will open to me, I will come in and sup with him and will feed him with the bread of life; we shall be one in spirit and purpose, and so shall we ever be brethren in the long and fruitful service of the search for the Paradise Father." 1829:04

"I have yet much to say to you, but you cannot stand any more just now. Albeit, when he, the Spirit of Truth, comes, he shall eventually guide you into all truth as you pass through the many abodes in my Father's universe.
"This spirit will not speak of himself, but he will declare to you that which the Father has revealed to the Son, and he will even show you things to come;he will glorify me even as I have glorified my Father." 1951:04

"I am going to send you my spirit, just like me except for this material body. This new teacher is the Spirit of Truth who will live with each one of you, in your hearts, and so will all the children of light be made one and be drawn toward one another. And in this very manner will my Father and I be able to live in the souls of each one of you and also in the hearts of all other men who love us and make that love real in their experiences by loving one another, even as I am now loving you." 1948:05

"Pentecost was designed to lessen the self-assertiveness of individuals, groups, nations, and races. It is this spirit of self-assertiveness which so increases in tension that it periodically breaks loose in destructive wars. Mankind can be unified only by the spiritual approach, and the Spirit of Truth is a world influence which is universal.
The coming of the Spirit of Truth purifies the human heart and leads the recipient to formulate a life purpose single to the will of God and the welfare of men. The material spirit of selfishness has been swallowed up in this new spiritual bestowal of selflessness. Pentecost, then and now, signifies that the Jesus of history has become the divine Son of living experience. The joy of this outpoured spirit, when it is consciously experienced in human life, is a tonic for health, a stimulus for mind, and an unfailing energy for the soul." 2065:06-07


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Howdy, folks.

Well, now I'm really confused. In my experience, the give and take of ideas has been the very substance of Internet forums. In fact, their very purpose. Fundamental to this purpose has been the asking and answering of questions. Thus are misunderstandings averted and clarity approached. Until just recently, this practice has been in frequent use and good standing here at Truthbook.

I have only asked a reasonable question that I feel might shed some light on a very dark subject. No one is under any obligation to answer at all, let alone in any particular manner. But still, considering this is an Internet forum, it is not unreasonable that I might have expected an answer. This is what usually happens.

Instead, in this instance, it seems my question is somehow out of order. This being the case, I withdraw my question, since it is not my desire to be a distraction.

Thank you all for your responses.

"Never let yesterday use up too much of today."
Will Rogers

Peace,
Arc


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Arc,

'tain't so!
the short of it:
there aren't enough hours in the day to pay due homage to all who SO deServe
your question(s) were deep and wide and will, i trust, eventually be responded to
in kind,

susan

the long of it:
follows in my next reply


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So I simply asked the women what they thought Iris was trying to say by the choice of her quotes. And the question is still open.


"The religion of the spirit requires only unity of experience--uniformity of destiny--making full allowance for diversity of belief. The religion of the spirit requires only uniformity of insight, not uniformity of viewpoint and outlook. The religion of the spirit does not demand uniformity of intellectual views, only unity of spirit feeling." 1732:02

"Each of the apostolic teachers taught his own view of the gospel of the kingdom. They made no effort to teach just alike; there was no standardized or dogmatic formulation of theologic doctrines. Though they all taught the same truth, each apostle presented his own personal interpretation of the Master's teaching. And Jesus upheld this presentation of the diversity of personal experience in the things of the kingdom, unfailingly harmonizing and co-ordinating these many and divergent views of the gospel at his weekly question hours." 1658:01

"Your spirit unity implies two things, which always will be found to harmonize in the lives of individual believers: First, you are possessed with a common motive for life service; you all desire above everything to do the will of the Father in heaven. Second, you all have a common goal of existence; you all purpose to find the Father in heaven, thereby proving to the universe that you have become like him."1592:01

"Forewarn all believers regarding the fringe of conflict which must be traversed by all who pass from the life as it is lived in the flesh to the higher life as it is lived in the spirit. To those who live quite wholly within either realm, there is little conflict or confusion, but all are doomed to experience more or less uncertainty during the times of transition between the two levels of living. In entering the kingdom, you cannot escape its responsibilities or avoid its obligations, but remember: The gospel yoke is easy and the burden of truth is light." 1766:03

"Religious perplexities are inevitable; there can be no growth without psychic conflict and spiritual agitation. The organization of a philosophic standard of living entails considerable commotion in the philosophic realms of the mind. Loyalties are not exercised in behalf of the great, the good, the true, and the noble without a struggle. Effort is attendant upon clarification of spiritual vision and enhancement of cosmic insight. And the human intellect protests against being weaned from subsisting upon the nonspiritual energies of temporal existence. The slothful animal mind rebels at the effort required to wrestle with cosmic problem solving.
But the great problem of religious living consists in the task of unifying the soul powers of the personality by the dominance of LOVE. Health, mental efficiency, and happiness arise from the unification of physical systems, mind systems, and spirit systems. Of health and sanity man understands much, but of happiness he has truly realized very little. The highest happiness is indissolubly linked with spiritual progress. Spiritual growth yields lasting joy, peace which passes all understanding."1097:01-02

"The religion of the spirit means effort, struggle, conflict, faith, determination, love, loyalty, and progress."1729:06


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Arc, I consider you a friend. And I also consider Iris a friend. So God knows I would not want to aggravate circumstances between friends. But neither would I want to say, well, "you just don't get it" because it's apparent that you just don't get it. Not to say that I DO get it, but I'm so used to being left out of the crux of conversations (because I'm female), I've grown accustomed to "not getting it." Thus it is that we have to learn to think on our feet. That's how it is that we end up reading between the lines, I suppose.

But I do recognize and can identify the relevance of the last quote in Iris' thoughtful contribution this morning and that is the one about the Spirit of Truth being designed to curb the self-assertiveness.

Not intending to be critical of men, but of their perceptions in terms of what they feel they need to do in order to do God's will ... it's that self-assertion that is a pain in the neck. As if having a penis gives men a right to just push their way around and rock the boat while women are expected to simply take it, and respond to their lead.

This holds true spiritually speaking, as well, and we see this manifested in our culture, society, home, etc., that men tend to be pushy. They can be bullies. They can take over completely and use God as an excuse for it. (Not to mention George Bush.) They rule with an iron fist, and they take captives. And, like dogs, when you get three or four them together, they think like a pack and become dangerous. It happens in neighborhood bars, political forums, and discussion lists.

The problem is that not only can women not function under these conditions, Mother God cannot function under these conditions! She is the nurturer, the comforter, the confidant. But if man is busy neurotically taking matters into his own hands, he doesn't want that nebulous intuitive stuff, that subtle stuff, that spiritual stuff. He wants to do something, make a difference, smite something, fix it, be a hero, now! (Somebody recently pointed out that he is quick and she is slow, but she is not slow because she is retarded!) Under these circumstances, how now can the female work with him side-by-side? And how can the Spirit of Truth say, "This is the way" when the fellow is going off doing it his way?

We don't all have to think alike in order to be alike if we are all dedicated to the precepts of filiality. Family. Divine family. Where we each and all have a right to personality expression and Adjuster expression, albeit within the bounds of family sovereignty. And nobody's voice is more important than anybody else's, and certainly not because of its gender.

I know inherently I have said something in here that upset somebody, for which I apologize in advance, but it is this self-assertive quality (referred to by women as "male testosterone") that is probably the biggest culprit here in terms of allowing the Divine Feminine to function. She is NOT self-assertive. She is here to help, to support, to facilitate, to nurture, and to lead her Children into the presence of the Son, who is a prince of peace.

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....it is this self-assertive quality.... that is probably the biggest culprit here in terms of allowing the Divine Feminine to function


"One of God's characteristics revealed in Scripture that is most lovable is tenderness (cf. Hosea 11.8 ). This is an aspect of the Divine Feminine, which translates in our awareness of God as motherly, affectionate, nurturing, patient, forgiving, reconciling opposites, healing every wound, innocence itself.
God is innocence itself. Like a happy child, God seems to have no particular agenda, just sheer goodness manifesting itself. God is eternally childlike and playful, accepting everything just as it is. God is always in the present moment with whatever may be its contents: always responding to everything and everyone; yet always free, peaceful, and at rest. God delights in everything that exists, adjusting to every creature...and eager to bestow eternal life and happiness on every human being."
Thomas Keating, Manifesting God (New York, Lantern Books, 2005), 25-26


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Arc says:
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When you say that Iris hasn't said anything, she's just using quotes, I am mystified. I know in my own writing, my choice of quotes says quite a lot. Quotes usually say what the writer intends to say, but for a variety of reasons chooses to use a different voice.

and:
Quote:
I have only asked a reasonable question that I feel might shed some light on a very dark subject. No one is under any obligation to answer at all, let alone in any particular manner. But still, considering this is an Internet forum, it is not unreasonable that I might have expected an answer. This is what usually happens.

Instead, in this instance, it seems my question is somehow out of order. This being the case, I withdraw my question, since it is not my desire to be a distraction.


Arc...I think some really like Iris's posting UB quotes instead of using her own words/ideas...and others find it a little irritating. I fall into both categories myself.

I find it somewhat distracting to have someone participating behind someone else's words. The real person doesn't seem to be present.

On the other hand, b/c I'm somewhat familiar w/those writings and b/c of the subject matter, it's a helpful reminder of where my focus needs to be headed toward vs where my perception is coming from.

Example:
My initial knee-jerk reaction to Iris simply posting UB quotes (w/o any comment on her own) was to just tune them out as someone trying to?...have no clue but it seemed contrived. But I wasn't satisfied w/that b/c I don't know her at all so how could I judge her reasons or rationale.
So I looked at why I was feeling negative, other then my reasons stated.

It didn't take long for me to find my own personal bias...again. I have an older brother who converted from Catholicism to an even more strident, stringent and legalistic religion. One didn't have a conversation w/him. One had a conversation w/scripture quotes...from the OT no less. My brother is a very fearful man; locked into crossing all the t's and dotting all the i's. As long as he stays w/in the parameter of those scripture quotes he feels safe. Take him away from those and he just has no words. He seems to disappear into just a shell. It's extremely sad...I see no joy in him even though he professes to have been "born again". He's also caused a lot of heartache to members of the family, especially our mother. Much, if not all of the quotes he "throws" at us are laced w/retribution, punishment, damnation...you get the picture.


I can only speak for myself but I was reacting to "my brother's tactics" and not Iris (I probably still am to some degree). And since I don't know her intent and I agree, or at least am open to the contents of the UB quotes, have found no reason to respond to the quotes she posted.

I do understand your frustration though. Maybe b/c this is such a delicate subject matter...we are trying extra hard to play nice. And to some, like Gerdean and Joer, her means of communicating seems to be right on target.

Anyway, for what it's worth...that's my take on it from my twisted and limited perspective.

Peace
Jo


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LOL. I know what you mean, Jo.

I had that same kind of experience as an adolescent, learning how to use scripture in the ministry school of Jehovah's Witnesses. And again, in the final days of my first marriage, where we used quotes from the UBook to justify and rationalize our own position - all of which were increasingly and diametrically opposed to each other's thus rendering all things (and participants) moot. As a result, I absolutely refuse to argue with scripture as a medium. Discussion, yes; argument, no.

Currently, I have an associate who wields the UB like an extension of her right arm. Sometimes it is a bat, to hit you over the head with UB quotes; sometimes it is a jackhammer, to hit you with her point several times over, just to make sure you get it. I often want to shake her, so I usually overlook her posts, as well as her extracts, as it is overbearing. And I once knew a vocalist who never offered her own opinion, but would sing the words of a popular song that portrayed what she would portray if she were to portray her own perspective, and that irked me to no end.

But. Considering that there was a strong possibility that Iris would not have rejoined us at all, under any circumstances, and being very glad that she is still here, I am willing to accept her offerings as an extension of her own spirit, no matter whence their source. In fact, she did speak. She thanked me for telling the story about how I met Mother Spirit.

And, in closing, let it be understood that women who talk a lot, who have a command of the English language and who are not afraid to speak up, will run with the opportunity to teach and preach if and as it is offered to them and/or appropriate, but it is also true that we want other women to take the podium and run with their opportunity, too. So perhaps Iris is simply taking a back seat to other voices that have yet to be revealed, or to attain their stride.

Speaking of which, Susan, I think it's your turn. And Tasneem (not Tasheem as I had mis-spoken earlier; sorry about that) is always a delight to hear from. Or do you prefer being addressed as Sarah?

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for what it's worth . . .

At dawn's early light, we rise. Already coffee and love have been made (not necessarily in that order :wink: ), s***, shower and shave taken :roll: (in that order, not that you care to know), laundry agitates (in more ways than one), man~partner off to work - overtime, teenager still sleeps while hawks and doves, outside our domicile, do not.

One of many a.m. routines is to peruse the news - local, international, community, of which this list and others are a vital part.

During the work week I then hurry off to my 11 hour+ "job" which is, currently, an in~home family day care where I "mother" five children, ages 7 months to 2 1/4 years; 3 males, 2 females, btw . . . the stories I could tell! and, of course, I must have mentioned that we parent 7 children; 5 females, 2 males, btw (sleeping teen only one still ennested) who are more than in need of phone calls, emails, prayers and more prayers).

Alas, the weekend . . . what to do with all this "free" time . . ? I am drawn to spend a snippet of it with all y'all, here (honestly, I'm a born Yank, but have found living in the deep south that this phrase really does function well).

Seems silly to come here to say I've no time to comment here but, 'tis true. Gerdean knows this from our shared time and space over in UBRONdom where we're reading SixPagesADay - well, they are.

But - Joer, Gerdean, Iris, Sarah, Arc, Ray, Jo, Dave, here

and

all others spinning, twisting, turning, tapestrying all the Truthbook threads,

a deep bow

thank you

keep on keepin' on

The best I can offer is to ever remember to

Worship and Serve.

I know I'm preachin' to the choir but all I say or do must express one or the other or both, simultaneously (especially juicy moments), or I'd just as soon stay silent . . .

Lady Gerdean ~ I'll pass your thanks to Rochelle and Errol Strider, Marin County, CA, longtime UB readers, gorgeous and talented who during one segment of "The Gathering" had us all embody our titles of royalty as daughters and sons of God. There are a handful of times when you say something that is VERY far from my experience but so VERY often you speak my soulsong, thank you.

Joer, you be da man. Your courage, heart and perseverance here have really been the lifeblood of this forum, many times over. An honor to call you a brother.

Iris, the quotes are MOST welcomed as were your personal words when you were so sharing - w/o the quotes this is mostly talk and more talk, that which the world is so full of already. The quotes help to keep us on track, imho.

Sarah, your presence here adds a special touch. Please give more as you are able.

Arc, I'm still not able to share how each quote relates or does not, save to say as above to Iris and that for me, the gender stuff is much less significant than the overall need for spirit infusion into EVERY relationship via Jesus alive today as SoT and that whenEVER Jesus or Spirit of Truth are referred to I ALWAYS automatically include Divine Mother as they so function as one.

Ray, a fine job moderating this, thanks. Your male questions and ideas will no doubt add friction AND traction to the mix.

Dave, your perspective is refreshing and a challenge. Don't stay in hiding, please. (There is a longtime UB reading couple in Fullerton, not far from you, do you know them?)

Jo, I need to hear more from you. I have not experienced the pain that you have so cannot know how to work with it. I DO know what it feels like to be burned out, though, so honor your need to renew and regroup before/while moving forward.

I am only daughter and granddaughter in my birth family. It was very special to be a female and I was treated thusly. I am sure this has charted my course for NOT being as beat up nor beat down by all the maleness on this sphere. My life has been neither lala nor foofoo, though, and I am not totally ignorant of nor immune to my sisters' pain, it is just that I do not EMBODY it. Perhaps I can better serve this being the case, I'm not sure.

At age 24, nearly 30 years ago, I nursed my first born daughter, Jasmine, often. It was during these long sessions that I first read The Urantia Papers sequentially, in entirety. I therefore early learned of Our Divine Mother and the POWER of MOM, WOW! Grateful to say the least.
(She, btw, is now nursing her first, one month old Brady Robert. I'M a GRAMMA!!!)


UB community at large has been exploring gender issues for decades. Stuart Kerr has written a paper, there was a Wrightwood Series focus group and years ago I recall hearing a taped study group session deeply investigating gender function as it relates to Father/Mother God. I need to dig around and see if these tools are readily available.

So much said, much more left out . . . not even sure I've written the essence of what I really want to say, but it is no longer dawn, e'en nearing dusk and I'm gonna let this reply rip.

Nichole Nordeman's title cut, "Brave", will inspire. Take a listen if you can.

in His name and by Her grace,
susan


Last edited by susan on Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:14 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:44 am +0000
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I find it somewhat distracting to have someone participating behind someone else's words. The real person doesn't seem to be present.


"Happy are they who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Happy are you when men shall revile you and persecute you and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven." 1570:12

"To return good for evil, to assert the will so as to become master of the situation, to overcome evil with good--the positive and righteous method."1770:06


Last edited by Bonita on Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:35 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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I think Iris has been receiving way too much attention lately.... :?

What was the original topic was about....?

((Loves))

Sarah


Last edited by Tasneem on Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:40 pm +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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