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Are women treated different than men on the internet?
Yes 65%  65%  [ 11 ]
No 35%  35%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 17
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who are the more spiritual or successful... man or woman...

"Women seem to have more intuition than men, but they also appear to be somewhat less logical. Woman, however, has always been the moral standard-bearer and the spiritual leader of mankind. The hand that rocks the cradle still fraternizes with destiny." 938:08

"Each sex will always have its own special sphere, albeit they will ever and anon overlap. Only socially will men and women compete on equal terms." 1938:04


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This morning I began to post what will likely be a rather long ramble about my personal experiences.

Tonight I am more concerned about better understanding where all who have posted are coming from and feel particularly fuzzy about Jo's first post and ask her to please elaborate further.

You are frustrated w/ the revelators for not using female gender friendly language? Do you feel that the Revelation is speaking to men and not women? Do you interpret it as in any way NOT upholding gender equality?

Forgive me, for since I began reading in'76 I have not once gotten this message, overtly nor covertly, from TUB. I am smart and sensitive (all to Herm's glory, certainly not mine) and even feel somewhat dense in these discussions (and have for many years) so I must be missing something.

I still hope to share "my story" but am sensing the timing is not quite right.

No one I know has not felt frustrated, angry, enraged, depressed, etc. about one thing or another. I've been working most of my life to use these emotions as springboards into positive action lest I be reduced to a useless blob. Help me to help you be encouraged by sharing more, please.

respectfully,
susan


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I just experienced my first synaptic nerve misfiring, a/k/a a “significant” and I beg a quick intrusion to inject my own “thread spin.”

LUCID LOGIC OR MALE MISUNDERSTANDING

If we might, let’s imagine for a moment that in the Universe of Universes, our planet has been designated by the Most Highs as a “decimal planet.” – an inhabited orb in God’s creation where something NEW HAPPENS!

Let’s further imagine that a characteristic of the intelligent free-will creatures, male and female, on a decimal planet – 10th in a series – is to attempt to reflect the loving natures of our Local Universe Creator Son and our Local Universe Creative Mother Spirit in a NEW EXPERIMENT!

Lastly, let’s imagine that the new experiment is for the animal-origin, spirit-indwelt, free-will creatures sojourning on the planet – humans – to try and do the will of The First Source and Center of ALL - Be You Perfect. This First Source has been revealed to us as our Spiritual Paradise Father. The revealer is our Creator Son, Jesus of Nazereth – The Son of Man and the Son of God, who even now rules sovereign in this sector of the Universe – includes our planet – and he rules equally and in complete harmony with his complemental consort, our Creative Mother Spirit – the Holy Spirit.

QUESTION:

Might an experiement such as this require both male and female human will creatures to create some “friction” from time to time in order to create some “traction” to move the experiment forward?

All the best, Ray :smile:


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Perusing this entire thread ...

Thank you, Sarah. And Susan, how lovely! "Lady Gerdean." I love it! Thank you.

Ray, you said (in reference to being a decimal planet):
Quote:
Might an experiment such as this require both male and female human will creatures to create some “friction” from time to time in order to create some “traction” to move the experiment forward?
God does it all; all we have to do is believe. We need to believe that the traction is built in to the inherent bisexuality of homo sapiens. We don't need anybody to stir it up in order to generate traction. We are created to have traction by the fact that we think differently (AND we are built differently! :wink: ), but the difference is inherently complimentary IF we are of like mind as to what our goals are.

Otherwise, we are back in this rut of slam-dunking one so the other can look and feel good and that creates friction! Friction is a bi-product of our mortal imperfection. It doesn't have to be deliberately generated so as to provide us with challenges. Life has enough challenges without creating more just to try to be helpful.

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Gerdean O'Dell
Author: "Secrets of Promise"


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Thank you my sisters, my brothers too, But in this thread I hope that our thanks and gratitude are dedicated to my/our sisters. For their bravery. For their Courage. For their Strength at maintain OUR Common Faith in God through thick and thin, through Death and destruction, through threat to life and limb. Thank you my sisters. ONLY a WOMAN COULD HAVE MADE IT THROUGH THE AGES to survive and carry the seed of Life and been, “the moral standard-bearer and the spiritual leader of [hu]mankind”, through so much, with so little, for so LONG. Thank you My sisters and BLESS YOU, BLESS YOU, BLESS YOU.

Thank you Susan. The UN stuff is great. It’s great to hear it voiced load and clear. What the error is and how it should be treated seriously. That spells the beginning of the END. It just that it takes so long and so much sacrifice and yet it needs to done until the problem of “violence against women caught in armed conflicts, "rape and other forms of sexual abuse, as well as all other forms of violence, ... remain pervasive, and in some situations have become systematic, and have reached appalling levels of atrocity.", exists NO MORE.


Iris thank you.
The balance and truth of that statement gives us hope for the unity and grace that remains before us in the rich embrace of diversity among us.

Quote:
"In this way you may experience a perfected unity of spirit purpose and spirit understanding growing out of the mutual consciousness of the identity of each of your indwelling Paradise spirits; and you may enjoy all of this profound spiritual unity in the very face of the utmost diversity of your individual attitudes of intellectual thinking, temperamental feeling, and social conduct. Your personalities may be refreshingly diverse and markedly different, while your spiritual natures and spirit fruits of divine worship and brotherly [and sisterly] love may be so unified that all who behold your lives will of a surety take cognizance of this spirit identity and soul unity; they will recognize that you have been with me and have thereby learned, and acceptably, how to do the will of the Father [and Mother] in heaven 1591:06-1592:01

Thank You Jo.
Quote:
But my pain...is for those millions who are trapped in that hell-hole. Even more...for those just being born into it.

I have hope that we will continue to evolve. But I'm also very human and I don't have the ability to remove myself from the reality of life NOW. That is part of being human...and is very much acceptable. Allow me to be such.

Peace
JO
I embrace your diversity Jo. You are absolutely right in what you have said about me. And how can a male perceive in the way a female does? We cannot say you are not perceiving correctly. BECAUSE the way you perceive is the way you perceive, it cannot be incorrect because it is YOUR PRECEPTION and only you and God can tell us what that REALLY IS. Thank you Jo. Forgive my rudeness and maleness. That’s one thing I always liked about Fetish when I saw Him as a Male and also as a Female. He/SHE NEVER EVER let me stick my perception of who He/She was ON Him/Her. And I accepted His/Her diversity also. And I would rejoice a few times when I was able to feel His/Her Godlike Love for me. It came through Her/His diversity. I pray that every woman here will treat me as openly, candidly and honestly as you Jo. So as to correct or enhanced if you will my ablity to see each of you the way a woman would. Thank you all.
tasneem
Quote:
which makes me wonder, how being a spirit soul in a woman's body and mind actually affects and conditions the soul, when compared to a male

Ray
Quote:
Might an experiment such as this require both male and female human will creatures to create some “friction” from time to time in order to create some “traction” to move the experiment forward?

Gerdean
Quote:
Otherwise, we are back in this rut of slam-dunking one so the other can look and feel good and that creates friction! Friction is a bi-product of our mortal imperfection. It doesn't have to be deliberately generated so as to provide us with challenges. Life has enough challenges without creating more just to try to be helpful.

Tasneem, Ray and Gerdean ,
Like Gerdean, I don’t think we have to “create any Friction”, there’s plenty of that already no matter what it’s called. But I do think that growth entails not battling it out But working it out together tasneem. Male/female, Positive/negative, attraction/repulsion, proton/electron Father/Mother Sons/daughters Material/Spiritual. Throughout our ascension careers, what we learn here about working things out together and understanding and valuing what we each (male and female) can contribute to progressing in our journey, understanding, spirituality, and resolution of physical/material problems on earth. Stopping the “violence against women caught in armed conflicts, "rape and other forms of sexual abuse, as well as all other forms of violence, ... remain pervasive, and in some situations have become systematic, and have reached appalling levels of atrocity."

In war, in domestic violence, in listening and respecting each other on the boards, in every instance we can recount and/or imagine, In recognizing the value in each others opinions without competing to make them right or wrong. Just sharing and seeing how they can be applied to the problem to bring about fruitful resolution.

First embrace our diversity and spiritual unity. Then Apply those diverse solutions to a mutually agreed upon problem. I believe we must agree that "rape and other forms of sexual abuse, as well as all other forms of violence, ... remain pervasive, and in some situations have become systematic, and have reached appalling levels of atrocity.", is WRONG and this type of behavior needs to END.

We can certainly find many other abuses that are wrong, but I believe staring with the most BLATANT examples may be a good place to unify and begin.

I’m shutting up again because I enjoy what you ALL have to say so much. It’s like breathing fresh air after the wind and rain of a recent storm has washed away so much of the pollution that was in the air. :smile: Amen/Awomen :smile:

_________________
Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


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Might an experiement such as this require both male and female human will creatures to create some “friction” from time to time in order to create some “traction” to move the experiment forward?


"If this were a mechanistic universe, if the First Great Source and Center were only a force and not also a personality, if all creation were a vast aggregation of physical matter dominated by precise laws characterized by unvarying energy actions, then might perfection obtain, even despite the incompleteness of universe status. There would be no disagreement; there would be no friction. But in our evolving universe of relative perfection and imperfection we rejoice that disagreement and misunderstanding are possible, for thereby is evidenced the fact and the act of personality in the universe. And if our creation is an existence dominated by personality, then can you be assured of the possibilities of personality survival, advancement, and achievement; we can be confident of personality growth, experience, and adventure. What a glorious universe, in that it is personal and progressive, not merely mechanical or even passively perfect!" 846:06

"God loves the sinner and hates the sin: such a statement is true philosophically, but God is a transcendent personality, and persons can only love and hate other persons. Sin is not a person." 41:06

Quote:
which makes me wonder, how being a spirit soul in a woman's body and mind actually affects and conditions the soul, when compared to a male


"As love is comprehended on a sex planet, the love of God is more comparable to the love of a father, while the love of the Eternal Son is more like the affection of a mother. Crude, indeed, are such illustrations, but I employ them in the hope of conveying to the human mind the thought that there is a difference, not in divine content but in quality and technique of expression, between the love of the Father and the love of the Son." 75:08-76:00

Quote:
A considerable amount of my rage has quieted to an anger, at times a slow simmer, but more often a resentful resignation b/c I can only chip away at the lies that exist on this planet in my own little (and it is tiny) corner of the world, as I encounter an opportunity.
The reality of many (too many) women's life is that they are living in a war zone and it is never-ending. There is no furlough, no R & R, no rotation out, no light at the end of the tunnel...just the ongoing battle of trying to survive while being negated. This isn't an exaggeration, this is a living reality and I am really tired of it being minimized.


"Jesus portrayed conquest by sacrifice, the sacrifice of pride and selfishness. By showing mercy, he meant to portray spiritual deliverance from all grudges, grievances, anger, and the lust for selfish power and revenge. And when he said, “Resist not evil,” he later explained that he did not mean to condone sin or to counsel fraternity with iniquity. He intended the more to teach forgiveness, to “resist not evil treatment of one’s personality, evil injury to one’s feelings of personal dignity.” 1590: 03

"But man’s interpretation of these early conflicts between the ego-will and the other-than-self-will is not always dependable. Only a fairly well unified personality can arbitrate the multiform contentions of the ego cravings and the budding social consciousness. The self has rights as well as one’s neighbors. Neither has exclusive claims upon the attention and service of the individual. Failure to resolve this problem gives origin to the earliest type of human guilt feelings.

Human happiness is achieved only when the ego desire of the self and the altruistic urge of the higher self (divine spirit) are co-ordinated and reconciled by the unified will of the integrating and supervising personality. The mind of evolutionary man is ever confronted with the intricate problem of refereeing the contest between the natural expansion of emotional impulses and the moral growth of unselfish urges predicated on spiritual insight-genuine religious reflection.

The attempt to secure equal good for the self and for the greatest number of other selves presents a problem which cannot always be satisfactorily resolved in a time-space frame. Given an eternal life, such antagonisms can be worked out, but in one short human life they are incapable of solution. Jesus referred to such a paradox when he said: “Whosoever shall save his life shall lose it, but whosoever shall lose his life for the sake of the kingdom, shall find it.” 1134:02-04

Quote:
Otherwise, we are back in this rut of slam-dunking one so the other can look and feel good and that creates friction! Friction is a bi-product of our mortal imperfection. It doesn't have to be deliberately generated so as to provide us with challenges.


"With the emergence of social groupings, individual irritations began to be submerged in the group feelings, and this promoted intratribal tranquillity but at the expense of intertribal peace. Peace was thus first enjoyed by the in-group, or tribe, who always disliked and hated the out-group, foreigners. Early man regarded it a virtue to shed alien blood.

But even this did not work at first. When the early chiefs would try to iron out misunderstandings, they often found it necessary, at least once a year, to permit the tribal stone fights. The clan would divide up into two groups and engage in an all-day battle. And this for no other reason than just the fun of it; they really enjoyed fighting." 784:01-02

Quote:
In recognizing the value in each others opinions without competing to make them right or wrong. Just sharing and seeing how they can be applied to the problem to bring about fruitful resolution.


"On this occasion he taught them the three ways of contending with, and resisting, evil:
1. To return evil for evil--the positive but unrighteous method.
2. To suffer evil without complaint and without resistance--the purely negative method.
3. To return good for evil, to assert the will so as to become master of the situation, to overcome evil with good--the positive and righteous method." 1770:03-06

"The divine spirit makes contact with mortal man, not by feelings or emotions, but in the realm of the highest and most spiritualized thinking. It is your thoughts, not your feelings, that lead you Godward." 1104:06

JESUS: "I am absolutely assured that the entire universe is friendly to me--this all-powerful truth I insist on believing with a wholehearted trust in spite of all appearances to the contrary." 1470:00


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Susan...no need to ask for forgiveness from me...but I don't feel the need to elaborate any further. Enough was said... Maybe I've just spent way too many years jumping off that "springboard" and need to give it a rest.

And I appreciate the U.N. article. So far the responses to the reports we send in (many times years after they are due) have been very disappointing. The United Nations has been encouraging the United States of America to clean up our act since 1995. The 2nd and 3rd Periodic Report in 2006 (we didn't bother to send any reports between 2000-2004) continues to encourage us to do better, almost along the very same lines of offenses. If they were grading our progress we would probably rank at C- or D.

But hey...we are progressing!

And Ray (you brave soul) I have to go along w/Gerdean
and Joer...we need no help w/creating more tension...it's built-in.

In fact, I believe I just proved (to myself) that the Internet isn't the place for me to discuss the sensitive subject of male/female aspects of God or anything else w/those labels. I feel as if I'm yelling inside...and I do not enjoy yelling...doesn't accomplish anything.

This is a polite discussion between polite ladies and gentlemen so no ugly reality needs to join in.

Like Joer said...everyone has a perspective. Mine is a little too hard-edged...my apologies to all.

Peace
Jo


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Jo, I do not believe your perspective is "hard-edged." It is truth, without all the fluff and frou-frou that enables folks to meander around through life as though it was not full of injustice and indignity, which it is. I am reminded of a fleeting scene from the novel I wrote where this woman, who gave birth to a brain dead child (Jennifer), is reflecting on her unhappy situation; Sylvia, the woman/mother laments:

Quote:
People were always assuming she was stupid, just because she was blonde. People like Roger, and like Brad. Well that was bull. She could think of lots of intelligent things to discuss. She could talk about floods and the cold spells and the heat waves. She could talk about food shortages and solar energy and birth control and political candidates and their issues. She read her father's newspaper. In fact that's about all she did, was to look nice and read her father's newspaper.

And for what? she thought, carrying her plate to the sofa. What pleasure or point is there in discussing the world's unhappy problems? Nobody ever does anything about them! She chewed on the sandwich absently, mopping up tomato seeds and juice from her chin with the bread. There is no pleasure in the world's problems. There was no pleasure because there was no solution and if anyone ought to know about living with an unsolvable problem it was Sylvia.

Without wanting to, her mind focused on the figure of a yellow-haired child, lying in a hospital bed in Denver, lying in a coma for seven years. As always when Sylvia thought about her daughter, she felt sick. Sick like she felt when she had her period, like there was a hot brick in her belly, burning and weighing her down. She didn't like that feeling, but she had grown used to it.

Grown used to it! That was the real tragedy! She had become accustomed to an insolvable problem, to a miserable state of affairs, like everybody else in the United States, everybody else in the world. You just, “Get over it!”

But where was the fight? Where was the right to the pursuit of happiness? Happiness for Sylvia? Not for Jennifer, who had no use for happiness. Jennifer didn't even know if she was alive or dead. Jennifer didn't know anything! Why wasn't she dead? Dead and gone, out of sight, and out of mind. Why was it that she and Roger should have to live with this mindless tragedy and become accustomed to it?

<snip her morbid reflections and cut to her temporary solution>

“Therefore,” she concluded, "I will live with it. I have become accustomed to the tragedy and I will live with it until I die or until I find a way to be free of it. Free of the doubts, free of the guilt, free of the trap of non-action."


So, you are caught in the trap, Jo, along with Sylvia and millions of other women, who have been worn down to a nubbin, to "nuthin' but a greasy spot." This isn't about getting equal pay for equal work. It's serious life and death business! Women who live all their lives with abusive fathers, then husbands, who one day reach their breaking point and snap and blow him away must spend the rest of their lives in prison for it; the more animalistic our military demands that our soldiers to be, the more their animalistic urges will be exascerbated and we will witness more of the likes of Abbu Ghraib; and the more that women and children are raped and used, the more alcoholism and drug addiction will increase. It is a very serious problem. It is not a laughing matter. Like blonde jokes, the Heineken beer ad is not cute! It is an endemic sickness in our society!

It is no wonder you don't want to focus on it any more. It is enough to make a body sick.

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It is no wonder you don't want to focus on it any more.


Ladies, please do take the lead and create your own new thread spins to discuss whatever you feel needs discussing. If your discussion warrants (you decide), you can spin it off of Joer's thread so Joer can keep this one on track. No one should be offended - it's just an organizational issue - allowing visitors to quickly see the nature of the various discussions.

Thanks to all for the great thoughts, the TUB citations, and the genuine good will demonstrated by all.

Ray


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My sister Sara shared this with me today. (see below) It reminds me of part of Gerdean's first post where she was mentioning that we all know God isn't a gender.

Iris thank you for the quotes and apropos TUB texts.

Jo, please don't go. You can't imagine (or maybe you can) the value of your "voice" here. Something’s need to be shouted. And sometimes we need someone brave and free flowing enough to do that for ALL of us. It's like Gerdean said. Your "voice " necessary.
Quote:
It is truth, without all the fluff and frou-frou that enables folks to meander around through life as though it was not full of injustice and indignity


Anyway I see importance in the feminine gender identification in the immediate Time and space. the short run. In the long run it will be shed as we spiritually develop to greater and better images of Deity identification.

Thanks Ray. For the moderation! :-)

Carolyn Osiek:
Images of God:
Breaking Boundaries


The full text of the article is available here.

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Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


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Hey, Joer...
I'm not leaving...I'll still be keeping up w/this thread and will join in when I can contribute something...or not. I'll just take it as it comes.

I was going back through it and overlooked quite a bit (guess I've been kinda stuck in my "emotional" head).

One thing I sailed through w/o taking notice was Ray's:

Quote:
LUCID LOGIC OR MALE MISUNDERSTANDING


That really can be a completely new thread. I go with...
Women's Lucid Logic...and Male's Misunderstanding of It.


And that was NOT posted w/any animosity...promise!

Peace
Jo


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Quote:
Women's Lucid Logic...and Male's Misunderstanding of It.


Jo, I think your restatement is a good subsection of this thread - witness the men's post in this thread. :smile:

However, as you requested, I have spun off a new thread called

LUCID LOGIC VS MISUNDERSTANDINGS

Sometimes, what is logical to men is misunderstood by women.
Sometimes, what is logical to women is misunderstood by men.

VIVA LA DIFFERANCE!!!

Looking forward to more of your posts on both strings.

All the best, Ray


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Howdy, folks.

If you ladies have the time, I have a question.

In this thread, Iris has offered some very astute selections of quotes from The Urantia Book. The ever gracious Tasneem acknowledged and responded to Iris's first post. I was very curious as to how the other women posting here felt about Iris's comments. To my surprise, no other woman here even acknowledged Iris's first post, let alone engage it. Iris posted two more times with appropriate quotes from The Urantia Book. So far, not one woman has so much as acknowledged Iris's last two posts. You all have previously expressed your high esteem for Iris, and I would think her comments might bear some weight.

So, I guess I'm wondering, are Iris's posts appropriate to the topic at hand, and if so, how?

Perhaps I am not the only male here who would be edified.

Thanks.

Peace,
Arc


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Arc,

I have been corresponding freely with Iris' quotations on Ray's new thread. I have not felt compelled to correspond with them here for I see them (and her) as completely supportive of what is being said.

One of the things women have come to recognize and act upon (or not act) is that when there is work to be done, we just pitch in. We don't have to coddle or criticize one another. Because nobody responded to Iris's posts is, I daresay, no reflection on the value of her contribution, but on the fact that while we are busy holding the wriggling child on the table changing the diaper, she is busy handing us pins and powder. It is the needs of the child we are addressing, not the needs of the diaper-changers.

Enlightened women are not as competitive as one might think. Nor are we as competitive with one another as men and women tend to be with each other. I believe we have learned to be supportive of each other, often without acknowledgement, because we are more interested "the work" than in being credited for doing "the work."

Plus, it is very apparent that Iris is responding solely by the use of UB quotes, interested in contributing to the topic without offending anyone by making personal comments (for which she was recently resoundingly reprimanded). She is not being ignored in this thread by her sisters. She is being purposive and self-acting and I respect her right to do so.

Or such is my feeling on this.

_________________
Gerdean O'Dell
Author: "Secrets of Promise"


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The ever gracious Tasneem


Why, thankyou Arc.... very gracious of you to say so....O:)

I was just going to say the same Gerdean, that dear Iris has decided not to write anything, but quote....

I will try to think up something clever to write later... it's gonna take a while though... :?

Loves to all.....


Sarah xxxx


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