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Are women treated different than men on the internet?
Yes 65%  65%  [ 11 ]
No 35%  35%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 17
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Sounds good Ray! I agree about giving it a rest. I really like how well you moderate brother. God Bless you.

Jo and any one else if you have questions for me about anything we've said here. I'd be glad to respond. If you or anyone here have any suggestions of how I can honor, support and value, women's input to our reality in my lifetime, I'm open to it.

God bless you all. :smile:

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Jo, there is no reason at all to lock this thread - it continues to promise great value in promoting better understanding - not just between men and women but also between two or more humans who might have a variety of thoughts on how better to appreciate each other.

Joe, God Bless you too Bro!

All the best, Ray


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A SONG of TRUE MOTHERHOOD
(Julian of Norwich)

God chose to be our mother in all things*
- and so made the foundations of his work,
- most humbly and most pure, in the Virgin's womb.
God the perfect wisdom of all,*
- arrayed himself in this humble place.
Christ came in our poor flesh*
- to share a mother's care.
Our mothers bear us for pain and for death;*
- our true mother, Jesus, bears us for joy and endless life.
Christ carries us within him in love and travail,*
- until the full time of his passion.
And when all was completed and he had carried us so for joy,*
- still all this could not satisfy the power of his wonderful love.
All that we owe is redeemed in truly loving God",*
- for the love of Christ works in us;
- Christ is the one whom we love.


(Canticle R from Enriching Our Worship; supplemental liturgical materials, Church Publishing, New York.)

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Joer...
Julian of Norwich has been one of my favorites...

I read that and immediately took a stroll down memory lane. Periodically you throw out something that reminds me that I have mistakenly "thrown out" some very important pieces of my life when I left my community. It wasn't all negative, by any stretch of the imagination. Sometimes I forget.


Maybe it's time to open up that old trunk and "remember"...

...just how wonderfully freeing it was to openly and publicly worship God as female/male within a group of like-minded women. And because it was done on a regular basis, it felt completely natural.

Maybe that's one of the reasons I react so strongly to all this male terminology....I became used to being included as an equal, with God. It's hard to go backwards into that segregated position...that feels extremely forced and unnatural.

Thanks for the reminder...even if that wasn't your intention.

Peace
Jo


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jak wrote:
Joer...
Julian of Norwich has been one of my favorites...

I read that and immediately took a stroll down memory lane. Periodically you throw out something that reminds me that I have mistakenly "thrown out" some very important pieces of my life when I left my community. It wasn't all negative, by any stretch of the imagination. Sometimes I forget.


Maybe it's time to open up that old trunk and "remember"...

...just how wonderfully freeing it was to openly and publicly worship God as female/male within a group of like-minded women. And because it was done on a regular basis, it felt completely natural.

Maybe that's one of the reasons I react so strongly to all this male terminology....I became used to being included as an equal, with God. It's hard to go backwards into that segregated position...that feels extremely forced and unnatural.

Thanks for the reminder...even if that wasn't your intention.

Peace
Jo


Your post really lifts me up Jo. I'm glad you could relate to that. What you say is true. And what TUB has done for me is help give me a basis to see the truth and understand things (Ideas, concepts and meanings)that I grasped before but now in new ways with more profundity and fecundity. The richness and brightness of the riches of certain teachings of truth like this one were helped to find the spiritual soil in my heart that was well fertilized and tilled by TUB, to allow these Ideas, concepts and meanings fertile ground, to be received in and grow in now that The truth of Her Being is becoming more commonly recognized and honored.

Thank you Jo and all here for being the reflection of God that has helped me to find and Love my Mother. May She bless and nurture us ALL. Awoman.
:smile:

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Hi Gerdean and all. I have a question on the meaning of this.

P.938 - §8 Women seem to have more intuition than men, but they also appear to be somewhat less logical. Woman, however, has always been the moral standard-bearer and the spiritual leader of mankind. The hand that rocks the cradle still fraternizes with destiny.

Does this mean women are flirting with destiny?, they are destined to have their effect on destiny? I saw something lese I couldn't find again that said something about this being women's time and that the 20th century was going see a large mark made upon it by women's influence. So I wsa just curious as to what others think this line means? The hand that rocks the cradle still fraternizes with destiny.

P.937 - §7 In the ideals of pair marriage, woman has finally won recognition, dignity, independence, equality, and education; but will she prove worthy of all this new and unprecedented accomplishment? Will modern woman respond to this great achievement of social liberation with idleness, indifference, barrenness, and infidelity? Today, in the twentieth century, woman is undergoing the crucial test of her long world existence!

P.938 - §1 Woman is man's equal partner in race reproduction, hence just as important in the unfolding of racial evolution; therefore has evolution increasingly worked toward the realization of women's rights. But women's rights are by no means men's rights. Woman cannot thrive on man's rights any more than man can prosper on woman's rights.

P.938 - §2 Each sex has its own distinctive sphere of existence, together with its own rights within that sphere. If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man's rights, then, sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men.

P.938 - §3 Civilization never can obliterate the behavior gulf between the sexes. From age to age the mores change, but instinct never. Innate maternal affection will never permit emancipated woman to become man's serious rival in industry. Forever each sex will remain supreme in its own domain, domains determined by biologic differentiation and by mental dissimilarity.

P.938 - §4 Each sex will always have its own special sphere, albeit they will ever and anon overlap. Only socially will men and women compete on equal terms.

P.938 - §7 Male and female are, practically regarded, two distinct varieties of the same species living in close and intimate association. Their viewpoints and entire life reactions are essentially different; they are wholly incapable of full and real comprehension of each other. Complete understanding between the sexes is not attainable.

P.938 - §9 The differences of nature, reaction, viewpoint, and thinking between men and women, far from occasioning concern, should be regarded as highly beneficial to mankind, both individually and collectively. Many orders of universe creatures are created in dual phases of personality manifestation. Among mortals, Material Sons, and midsoniters, this difference is described as male and female; among seraphim, cherubim, and Morontia Companions, it has been denominated positive or aggressive and negative or retiring. Such dual associations greatly multiply versatility and overcome inherent limitations, even as do certain triune associations in the Paradise-Havona system.

P.939 - §1 Men and women need each other in their morontial and spiritual as well as in their mortal careers. The differences in viewpoint between male and female persist even beyond the first life and throughout the local and superuniverse ascensions. And even in Havona, the pilgrims who were once men and women will still be aiding each other in the Paradise ascent. Never, even in the Corps of the Finality, will the creature metamorphose so far as to obliterate the personality trends that humans call male and female; always will these two basic variations of humankind continue to intrigue, stimulate, encourage, and assist each other; always will they be mutually dependent on co-operation in the solution of perplexing universe problems and in the overcoming of manifold cosmic difficulties.

P.939 - §2 While the sexes never can hope fully to understand each other, they are effectively complementary, and though co-operation is often more or less personally antagonistic, it is capable of maintaining and reproducing society. Marriage is an institution designed to compose sex differences, meanwhile effecting the continuation of civilization and insuring the reproduction of the race.

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Last edited by Joer on Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:49 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Hi JoeR.

Thanks for asking. I don't think that means anything other than the fact that it is through the mother that the child learns about the nature of the universe, just as the child learns about the nature of the Father in Heaven and through the earthly father. Thus, if a child is handled correctly from the time of the womb, in the cradle of its existence, through its formative years, the child will carry this pattern into its future.

Whether or not the child carries a benign virus or a malignant one will largely be determined by those very tender hours spent in the beginning when the child ascertains how difficult will be this human experience. "Is it a friendly universe, or do I need to fight my way through, kicking and screaming all the way?" And this attitude will be majorly influenced by the woman, the mother, and thus the hand that rocks the cradle fraternizes with destiny.

Will women raise their children as Sons of God or not? That's part of the challenge in the quote about whether woman will "respond to this great achievement of social liberation with idleness, indifference, barrenness, and infidelity?" Will she send the kid off to the day care center while she pursues her personal ambition? Will she leave the kid with a sitter while she goes out to party hardy? Or will she respond with a profound new appreciation of the value of what her influence can have on her child and, ultimately, on the destiny of mankind?

Will we generate a lot of little self-aggrandizing spoiled brats? or future leaders? Aggressive bullies who did not get their emotional needs met? or compassionate and steadfast counselors and guides? Hari-kari and whirling dirvish? Or peace and prosperity for earth and humanity?

Two cents.

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Gerdean Thank You. That was perfect. :smile:

I really appreciate your input. I needed your perspective because I just couldn't see that. :shock:

God Bless you Gerdean. :smile:
:smile: Joe

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Thanks Joe.

I haven't read all of this topic yet, but I do like to hear of the support of the feminine, and I do have quite a bit I'd like to add. But I'll try to do it in small portions.

Now, if I were Mr. Lucifer and I wanted to corrupt Earth, how would I go about it?

I read in the UB that women are the true spiritual leaders, and you know, from my experiences with Marion, I have to say I completely agree with this.

She is leading me in understanding that it's ONLY through my feelings that I can find and uncover the truth, and NOT with my mind. She intuitively knows this and lives this truth, and I'm just struggling and dragging along behind.

So if I had it within my power to corrupt a humanity, to make it obey me and do my bidding, then guess who I would hone in on, making them feel less important than men; making them feel lower than men, and making men feel they are higher and more important?

So what do we see: all the blame being heaped on Eve. But doesn't it take two to tango? So where was Adam, what was he doing that allowed Eve to fall prey to such malicious guile?

So what we have here is a break down in the Number One relationship. The Material pair default, all because each in their own separate ways are made to turn away from the other; each are made to deny certain aspects of themselves; each are made to call upon their minds - deny their feelings; each are made to live untrue to themselves. And how Eve manifests this breakdown is sleeping with the other bloke, all because she being a women is said to be a little more impulsive. But either way, for a relationship to fail it requires BOTH parties to equally stuff it up, something I imagine most of us, if we're big enough to admit, have experienced for ourselves.

But what a perfect excuse, to now dump it all on the woman. Sure Eve completed the technical part of the Default, but the Default had already happened, right from the first moment their relationship began to crack under the strain. It happened moments or certainly days after their arrival, and it was a one way street.

So all that needs to be done, now Eve is the guilty one - now all women, thanks to her, will carry that blame - is to keep the pressure up on them, don't allow them to have any rights or an equal say. And so what have we seen all through history, and what do we see now - nothing has changed!

And now Lucifer has gone but his legacy still remains.

Now, don't you think it's a nice story so far? But for you women reading this, there is one detail that you might have detected that doesn't add up. And it is this: could a man think up such deception? Could he not only think it up, but carry it out? And so girls what do you say?

Of course he couldn't, he's a man-spirit. All that denying of feelings and then keeping them suppressed; all that would have happened to Adam and Eve on the feeling level to screw them up, is in the department of women, it is not? Being a man, there is no way I could actually pull it off. I might come up with the devious plan, but even that is... doubtful.

So if you've been following my reasoning, it begs the question: well if Lucifer is a bloke, then how did he manage to pull off such an audacious plan? How indeed.

And so what do you conclude? What do you say actually might have happened? And this is where one might have to take something of a leap out of the UB, but its what I suspect.

That... wait for it... have you guessed... have you thought about it before yourself... you probably have so my sense of the dramatic will fizzel out... but, here it is!

Could there possibly be a... Mrs Lucifer?

So what do you reckon?

Spirit is going to a boring old place if all the higher spirits are blokes. Well it will be for us men... might not be for you women. Ah-ha! Your revenge.

James.


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Howdy James! Good To see you. Again like the rest here I’d like to welcome you to this site brother. God's Peace be with you. :smile:

I hope you do get a chance to read through this thread. To me it seemed to get into a deeper discussion of the Feminine aspects of God as presented in TUB and how they are manifested here on Urantia, than most discussions do.

You write:
Quote:
So what do we see: all the blame being heaped on Eve. But doesn't it take two to tango? So where was Adam, what was he doing that allowed Eve to fall prey to such malicious guile?

So what we have here is a break down in the Number One relationship.

I like what you say about the division that Lucifer wanted to create. Lucifer certain wanted to create division. BUT I don’t think the Number One relationship was between Adam and Eve. I believe it was between them and GOD, an that is precisely the relationship Lucifer wanted to destroy.

While EVE is blamed for this disassociation from God by Humanity. I don’t think Adam had any part in that blame. Quite the contrary, I believe Adam accepted full culpability with EVE for the Default as was portrayed in TUB when he join her in the default by repeating her action himself and giving up immortality and becoming Mortal.

It’s interesting in the TUB story that they were specifically warned by the “Angel of the Garden” who wrote the TUB perspective NOT TO DO WHAT THEY DID. It was also interesting that the “Devil” (Lucifer, Satan and Caligastia) did not have an easy time of convincing either one of the Material Pair to “go against God’s Plan”. Through sophistry he Eve was convinced she wasn’t “going against God’s Plan”. She was just trying her side plan (which she was specifically warned not to do at the outset) at the same time they were folowing God's Plan. She slipped up. It could’ve been Adam just as easily and perhaps on other planets in the Rebellion that was the case.

James you also wrote:
Quote:
It happened moments or certainly days after their arrival, and it was a one way street.


Actually it was about 5 years after their arrival and Adam and Eve discussed many times before it happened ALWAYS deciding against the suggested plan in favor of following GOD’s Plan.

You also write:
Quote:
now all women, thanks to her, will carry that blame - is to keep the pressure up on them, don't allow them to have any rights or an equal say. And so what have we seen all through history, and what do we see now - nothing has changed!


That’s true BUT not because of Adam’s failure to support her. They began by showing humankind the respect women deserved from the time of their arrival. If you read over this thread you see that in TUB excerpts. Adam never failed in teaching humans to have equal respect for women as for men. Even the prophets repeat this over and over again in the Bible as did Jesus.

So you are right when you say:
Quote:
And now Lucifer has gone but his legacy still remains.


You’re right, BUT the legacy remains not because of Adam’s failure to teach the correct mutual respect for women. But for OUR FAILURE as men to embrace that teaching of GOD that has been repeated and repeated to us for thousands and thousands of years. WE the men of this world perpetuate this “legacy of Lucifer” by OUR FAILURE to embrace the truth of women's mutual and equivalent vaue as creatures of God

Finally you write:
Quote:
And so what do you conclude? What do you say actually might have happened? And this is where one might have to take something of a leap out of the UB, but its what I suspect.

You don’t need a leap of faith “out of the UB”, just see and live the Truth that’s there. The same truth that the UB highlights for us in the Bible.

God said it, the prophets said it, Christ said it, many spiritual teachers said it, and TUB said it and if you read through this thread you’ll see many references to it that,

P.1608 - §2 "But who told you that my gospel was intended only for slaves and weaklings? Do you, my chosen apostles, resemble weaklings? Did John look like a weakling? Do you observe that I am enslaved by fear? True, the poor and oppressed of this generation have the gospel preached to them. The religions of this world have neglected the poor, but my Father is no respecter of persons. Besides, the poor of this day are the first to heed the call to repentance and acceptance of sonship. The gospel of the kingdom is to be preached to all men--Jew and gentile, Greek and Roman, rich and poor, free and bond--and equally to young and old, male and female.

You write:
Quote:
Could there possibly be a... Mrs Lucifer? So what do you reckon?
Doesn’t matter. Wrong is wrong what ever shape it takes.

Quote:
Spirit is going to a boring old place if all the higher spirits are blokes. Well it will be for us men... might not be for you women. Ah-ha! Your revenge.

If you look over this thread James you’ll see many TUB references beyond just man and woman here on Earth (Urantia) in the male and female, masculine and feminine persuasion. Showing again that,

P.27 - §1 To every spirit being and to every mortal creature in every sphere and on every world of the universe of universes, the Universal Father reveals all of his gracious and divine self that can be discerned or comprehended by such spirit beings and by such mortal creatures. God is no respecter of persons, either spiritual or material. The divine presence which any child of the universe enjoys at any given moment is limited only by the capacity of such a creature to receive and to discern the spirit actualities of the supermaterial world.

And if you read this thread James, you'll see GOD does this in His and Her Masculine and Feminine forms. :smile:

Peace and God's Love be yours my brother. :smile:

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Hi Joe,

My focus is on trying to understand the relationship of Adam and Eve more, as that to me is why they failed. And it's why our relationships fail.

What I meant by the Number One relationship was that for us, they are the 'physical' parents, humanity having evolved to a certain level being able to receive them. The Material pair arrive, as you know, being the most perfect relationship people can aspire to live. So in that light they are the most important relationship for us to study, and the only way we can study it, is through our own relationships.

And the whole intent of Lucifer and the others was to destroy that relationship, the one Eve and Adam shared, because if they could force that to break down, then naturally that same breaking down will be reflected in their personal relationships with the Father.

It goes without saying that personally their primary relationship is with the Father, but this being so strong, and what Lucifer wanted to break, Lucifer needed to focus his efforts on their intimate relationship with each other. That was where any weakness would be, if there was going to be any.

Adam and Eve I see them are soul-mates, with Material Sons and Daughters, being the perfect union of man and woman - of the soul-pair; so much so, that they are able by their creation to spawn a whole race of people. So for it to work, for them to achieve all they need to do, and lets face it, to have hundreds children – wow! – you're going to have to keep your relationship happening perfectly.

So how I see it was that pressure was brought to bear on them all with the intention of creating a rift in their relationship. And at first, a subtle one, and one that on the surface of it doesn't even show, because of Adam joining Eve after that terrible moment. It's easy to think oh wow, his love for her is so great – and undoubtedly it was, but really their love for each other had faltered, that is the error, the sin, with the end result being what Eve did.

If you put yourself in their place, then you can imagine and start to see, that with all the unrest, all the goings on; with Adam having to go away so often from Eve to shore up the defences, while Eve was left at home to look after the children and go through her pregnancies, that although they still loved each other, their relationship, and so love, was eroding away. And this to me is very significant. And the erosion, all though very subtle, I feel, probably began the moment they arrived.

Think of it this way. You are one of the Adamic pair, you're whole training and being is geared to going to a world in which the humanity has come of age to receive you. They welcome you, they make everything available to you because you are the great glorious ones who are coming to the Daligastia settlement, now a full blown city, with all the Daligastia helpers ready to receive you. And you're coming with communication between you and the people your going to on be with on the Earth all well established, everything is perfect for your arrival. And so when you arrive really it's business as usual. Everything is as it should be, and you and your partner can set about bringing the new race into being fully support by the locals, without one worry in the world.

Instead, what did our poor Adam and Eve come into. A place full of savage primitives. Van and Amadon (if I remember his name correctly) being the only real welcoming party. A nice but very basic Garden City, and savages wanting to break down the door of your house and carry you away. Not a great start.

So in those first moments, whether Adam and Eve liked it or not, huge pressures were brought to bear on them, and this would have affected them, both personally and so in their relationship together. And it's in those very subtle effects that their relationship is under threat and starts to crack, and that is what Lucifer and the others exploited. And the only way Eve and Adam, to my mind, could have held it together, was if they stayed true to themselves, to their relationship, putting their faith and trust in the Father and didn't separate. Didn't separate in mind or in feelings.

Adam would have had to stay at home and not go off all the time, he would have had to been the attentive father instead of trying to shore up the outer walls. And if death came to them by being axed to death by some ignorant savage, so be it, at least they themselves wouldn't have fallen, just as Jesus showed us.

Adam and Eves default was that they spend increasing amounts of time separated from each other trying to solve all the problems, whereas to have stayed true to themselves and their relationship they would have had to stay together - do all they could together, and keep speaking about all their problems, expressing all their worries and fear, but not tying to do things to make the fear and worries go away at the expense of becoming separated.

And their separation wasn't just physically, but also mentally, emotionally and spiritually. And even though the could speak to each telepathically they were still NOT TOGETHER. And that's where the break comes. The more Lucifer (and I only use his name to represent all the Evil Ones) could force them apart on all these levels, then it was only a matter of time before technically they went too far.

And so it was what the Voice in the Garden was trying to impress upon them – as you say Joe, not to do what they did. So if they weren't meant to do what they did, then what where they meant to do, and this is what I am trying to get at. They were meant to go the other way, to not separate, to remain side by side always, even if that meant fleeing the Garden earlier, and manifesting the violet race on the run.

If Adam and Eve were still on Earth I wouldn't mind betting that you'd never see them separated, or if you did, it would only be for moment. I doubt Adam would have packed his lunch and headed off to work for the day leaving Eve at home to look after the kids.

But this is what in effect happened, and what I mean by saying they are the Number One relationship to us, is for us to see that what they did, how they were, is how we are. They set the circuits for us, we, humanity, can only be as they were. They defaulted, so we are born into default. They are in effect our 'physical parents' on a technical level. They defaulted by separating in their intimate relationship together, so we all live separated in our intimate relationships together. Adam didn't stay at home where Eve needed him. Had he, then she wouldn't have resorted to what she did. (But I say this not to shift the blame to only Adam, he left Eve with her blessings, so they were both equally at fault.) Men don't stay at home where their partners need them. Women don't even stay at home, leaving the children to be raised by the crèche, and can you blame them. It's all too LONELY, and isn't that what TUB says: that Eve and Adam suffered from – severe loneliness. But it wasn't because they couldn't speak to all their mates in spirit because the communication circuits were shut down, that's a secondary issue, it was because they were separating within their own relationship. Had they stayed true, they wouldn't have felt lonely, because they would have had each other, and that was all they had.

We are living, literally – in our relationships, no matter how good you might believe your relationship to be, the default of Eve and Adam - how their relationship failed. Which WAS the default, not just the act of Eve going with an outsider. And the fact that Eve could seriously begin to contemplate joining with anyone other than Adam, and then doing it, says just how far they had fallen, how far their relationship had broken down. And that is where all of our relationships start from! And our healing, what we are all doing by looking for truth, really is from what I can see, trying to get the relationship with ourselves sorted out, so we can have the perfect relationship with another person, who will end up being our soul-mate, just as it was with Adam and Eve. So our first step in becoming true, is being able to live our relationships, and particularly the one with our soul-mate, as Adam and Eve lived prior to their default. As all Material pairs live, being that living example of the perfect relationship we are to emulate. And to emulate even before we can then move on to emulate higher states of being, that being like Jesus is. We can't actually live how Jesus lives, until we first live how the perfect Eve and Adam live. And that is our great stumbling block.

For how do you do that?

James.


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OK Zn that sounds cool.

I'm going to move this to a new thread, becuase while Eve is related to the Feminine Divine as an expression of God's Creation, the focus of this post, correct me if I'm wrong, is

"Do our male/female relastionships fail because Adam and Eve's Did?"
HERE

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As this thread is taking a breather, I am writing this mainly to Gerdean, as she said in the beginning of it, that she hasn't quite figured out what the Holy Spirit is.

And although I could privately send this, I thought it might interest other people too.

Gerdean for what it's worth, and I don't know if you're open to information from other sources, but in the Padgett Messgaes, Jesus tell us quite clearly how the Holy Spirit fits in.

He says it is responsible for directly conveying the Divine Love from the Father into our souls in answer to our true longing for it - our true longing to be with God.

And how I see this fitting in with TUB, is that it's a circuit - without personality, that is controlled by the Divine Minister. She commands or directs it to us with Her love, being Divine Love. And being representative of the Father's Love.

So when one longs or prayers sincerely to God one can feel the Holy Spirit actually coming about them, brining the Divine Love into ones heart and soul. And this feeling, from what you said you felt during your personal healing experience to do with your mother, is a feeling like a 'spirit' or 'presence', not unlike a 'ghost' but not a bad ghost as in what most people think of a ghosts, coming about you. And you can actually feel the Divine Love flowing into you. And it can help you with such healings as you described.

As I understand it, the HS doesn't itself actually heal, as many Christians believe, it only conveys the Divine Love into our soul, but when you receive that love, when you feel so loved by the Father (and Mother) then that can help bring about such deep inner healing.

The whole focus in the Padgett Messages from Jesus, is centered around establishing ones longing directly to the Father for His Divine Love. And although nothing is specifically and directly mentioned about this in the UB, you can read between the lines and apply the same message from Jesus in the PM.

So we can if we like actually long directly to the Father for His Divine Love. It's lovely to do. You simply open your heart and yearn and long to the Father, to fill your soul with His Divine Love. You don't need to say any words, you just long, or you can say words - say a prayer to support your longing. And if you do this in prayer, just long quietly, then wait, you will feel the HS come about you and then start to move directly into you. It's an incredible, amazing, beautiful sublime spiritual experience. And you can specifically long to the Father for His Divine Love any time you feel you want to.

You probably have already had the experience, and so know what I mean, so please excuse me if I am telling you something you already know and experience.

James.


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Iris posted on the TB&G thread Rick is contributing on about Christ as Mother. Jeff mentioned about how Christ's lessons of the Cross was a sublime message of TB&G. This thread is on eof my favorites on Truthbook in it's exploration of the feminine aspects of God as expressed here on earth (Urantia) and beyond. :smile:

In this thread with a lot of TUB support for the feminine aspects in God I'd like to share this post from another site I posted a few days ago on Biblical and Christian references to those feminine aspects and images of God.

In-between is a dangerous place to be

HERE

I found an excellent book recently. written by Virginia Ramey Mollenkott, published in 1983, The Divine Feminine, The Biblical Imagery of God as Female. I bought it for a buck in a used book rack for my 60 year old sister who was in the hospital at the time. She Loved it. I also got one on Norwegian Folk Tales for my cousin.(the one many here at Truthbook prayed for a year or so ago.) It's pretty amazing to me to see that Virginia had these understandings in 1983. Not that the Feminine Divine hasn't always been here with and within us. It just that She's been hidden from us by the Male hierarchy of the Church for so long we have forgotten How prominent She is in ours Lives and in Our Love of God, and Our brothers and sisters of the world and beyond.

Well, Virginia sees Her clearly and shares her Biblical and church vision of her with us in a very powerful way.

I don’t know if Sister Joan has ever read her book, but she certainly is guided by the same Spirit of God as Virginia. And I believe their visions are along the same path and recognize a future with this completeness of God within it.

Virginia has more biblical references and more historical references of Teachers of the church referring to God in female or feminine terms than any other book I’ve read. (which isn’t many). The Femininity of God reached me experientially and empirically, way before I found it intellectually. But since She’s reached me, I found She’s always been here ready to nurture us along waiting for us to recognize Her again when we are ready to continue our Spiritual Growth in the completeness of God.

But this is not about me it is about Virginia’s book. She mention’s those religious who recognize the Feminine within God over the centuries and yes even millennium. Though there may well be those among our Vatican brothers and sisters (do we have any sisters in Vatican Hierarchy?) who would have us forget all these Church Father’s and Mother’s who recognized the Femininity of God.

Virginia among many of our sisters and brother’s like Fr. Roy keep our Love for Her alive. We will not forget Her because She is in our hearts. And to forget Her is to forget Life itself. AnnieD on another thread says we cannot forget Life, but how can we remember Life if we do not remember Our Mother? How can we have Life without our Mother?

Virginia mentions some of the Church who remembered Her. In Clement’s Paidsgogos in the second century he writes nearly a whole chapter on a maternal suckling God. Virginia writes: To Clement the aspect of God’s nature is Mother: “By his loving”, Clement says, “The Father became of women’s nature.” Clement also specifies that “The Word [Christ] is everything to His little ones, both father and mother…” Virgina mentions, St John Chrysostom (347-407 AD), Saint Ambrose speaks of, “the Father’s womb”, and even of the nourishing breasts of Christ. Early in the fifth century Bishop Synesius of Ptolemais in Lybya said of the Christian Divinity, “You are Father, You are Mother, You are male, You are female.”

So many recognized Her in the Past. Valentinus (2nd century), St Gregory of Nyssa (about 395) St Augustine of Hippo (d 430), Venerable Bede (c. 673-735), Peter Lombard (1110-1164), Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274), St. Bonaventure (1221-1274), St. Gregory Palamas (d. 1359), The mystical writer Mechtild von Hackeborn (d. 1298) makes reference to all three divine persons as mothers, stating that Christ is a conversation told her directly that God’s Love is her mother. Blessed Angela of Foligno (1248-1309), Saint Catherine of Siena (1347- 1380), saint Bridet of Sweden (c. 1302-1373), Margery Kempe (d. after1415), Dame Julian of Norwich (d. after1415), developed the image of a Christian feminine divinity more fully, more centrally, and more creatively than any other medieval author.There were many more.

I’ll leave with another excerpt from Virginia Ramey Mollenkott's book that may reflect on the problem with our Male Church Hierarchy’s attitude towards Church women:

“The female (or woman) and the feminine are two different things. The female is a person of a specific gender, whereas the feminine is an aspect of a person of either gender. Therefore the attitudes of a man toward the feminine may have very little carry over into his actions toward specific women. By exploring the feminine he may in fact be focused on his own attitudes towards himself and the need and obligation to be nurturant toward other males.”

Them boys (in the Vatican) have been alone to long. Time to get some ladies in there. IMHO.

God's Peace be with us all. May God's Love guide us in our just treatment and respect of women while they guide us to a deeper understanding and respect for the Feminine Divine. Aman/Awoman

Thank You Sister Joan. God be with you.

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Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


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I wonder if any of you have a little time could you critique this post for me. The audience is a catholic site mostly of progressive thinkers expressing their voice for progressive change within the church. There are maybe a quarter of the posters who are traditionalists and conservatives. They create an excellent backdrop with which to compare and contrast ideas of change.

Sometimes my posts surprise me like this one. They just sort of flow out and sometimes what comes out seems a little more powerful of a statement than it seems when it sits within me without being put into words.

I've sensed or heard that type of experience from all of you here. Just not in those same words. I wonder if I get a guidance sometimes in formulating what comes out of my mind as words flowing onto the post? I think I've heard you all express similar experiences. Right?

Any way if anyone has anything to share with me on this post from another site, I thank you in advance. Iris, Gerdean, Stacey, Tootsie, Tasneem, Jo, MaryJo others. The guys? Thanks. :smile: God's Love be with you.

In-between is a dangerous place to be

http://ncrcafe.org/node/2333#comment-28108

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Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


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