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Are women treated different than men on the internet?
Yes 65%  65%  [ 11 ]
No 35%  35%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 17
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I didn't mean to negate the importance of women, even as I was busy objecting to them being put upon a pedestal. Of course women are important as a gender, and each woman is important in her own right, as all men are also important as individuals and as a gender. I was attempting to draw an analogy of the folly of exalting women (or men) to the point where they are held above the norm. They did that with the life of the Master -- they created a religion ABOUT Jesus rather than discovering the religion OF Jesus. It just seems that we are too eager to create a religion about women ... as if in compensation for all the men who have been kings. We are only human. Too much praise or flattery is not wise, imo, regardless. Behold the man! Behold the woman! Behold the human being who grapples with life, triumphs over its vicissitudes, and attains self-mastery. But don't be putting them on a pedestal or making a saint of them. Do that and they go beyond our realm where we can no longer relate to them. Holy men and patron saints do not help me feel more spiritual; they make me feel inadequate.

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Well you know Gerdean, I was thinking last night, what if our next celestial Teacher is of a female or feminine persuasion. It seemed like the first time I had thought of it. But I noticed tonight as I reviewed this other thread, That I have made reference to our next visitor as a feminine, when I said “or Her coming.” .

Where we are in Our Spiritual Development as a Planet?
http://forums.truthbook.com/viewtopic.php?t=2255&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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Now the Teacher Son Man would normally come after all war was over. But since everybody on down the line had to deal with the effects of the default I don't imagine that the fact we still have war would delay the Teacher Son Man. But we have no idea when that would be anyway.

So let's just keep on doing our work to grow spiritually and work for peace and joyfully and hopefully await His or Her coming.

The difference last night is that is was a stronger indication. You know like when you get the feeling that you stumbled on something and a light goes on. It seems to fit our world condition.

A high female or feminine celestial personality would really engender a lot of healing in our confused world. I really believe the gender imbalance is causing a lot of problems and I really sense that very soon a lot of healing change generated by the feminine perspective is coming soon. I don’t know why this is happening or why these ideas are gaining force in my mind. But I won’t deny I haveing them (these thoughts) just because I don’t clearly understand them. I’ve found from past experience generally things play themselves out and my clearer understanding comes after the fact. :smile:

So I ran across this last night while researching the TUB connections to that article I posted about today.
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P.1015 - §1 It was 1,973 years before the birth of Jesus that Machiventa was bestowed upon the human races of Urantia. His coming was unspectacular; his materialization was not witnessed by human eyes. He was first observed by mortal man on that eventful day when he entered the tent of Amdon, a Chaldean herder of Sumerian extraction. And the proclamation of his mission was embodied in the simple statement which he made to this shepherd, "I am Melchizedek, priest of El Elyon, the Most High, the one and only God."

So I think Melchizedek was 1973 years before the birth of Jesus plus seven more to make up for our lost time and that puts it at 1980 years before the beginning of our current calendar. Then Jesus lived and died at 33 or roughly 1974 years ago by our current calendar. So I’m thinking the length of an “age” must be pretty specific in terms of the quantitative exactness we’ve seen in TUB. So I’m thinking we may be pretty close to a visit from a new teacher and then it hit me.

What if the teacher was a Woman? And right at that thought I got chills and the light clicked on. Yeah! That would really do it. It would change perspectives rapidly. And I thought that’s it. Our next visit is going to be a woman. That would do more in the PURE ACT of it happening to heal us than if another male figure appeared.

So anyway I look over that other thread and I see “6. Post-Teacher Son Man. “ And I know Man as used there for historical period reference means Human or Humanity. Now I think about Post Teacher-Son. Christ is referred to as Son/Mother in TUB. Is it possible for a female celestial being of a higher order than a Material daughter (An EVE) to appear on a material world in the position of a Teacher Son Man? OR maybe because we are a confused world of default as we see in that other thread and the whole order of “Urantia is not proceeding in the normal order. Your world is out of step in the planetary procession.”, we will get the first ONE. A High celestial or materialized deity Women Teacher. We’ve been told our world is unique. Being a decimal experimental life planet in default. Maybe extraordinary circumstances would warrant another extraordinary event like Christ’s bestowal for our celestially beloved and watched confused world.

So I’m wondering Gerdean and others. I don’t remember seeing any of this directly stated in TUB but is it conceptually possible based on TUB’s precepts?

God Bless you all and thanks in advance for any help. :smile:

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I don't think it would make any difference, JoeR. As barbaric as this planet is, as long as we are still this backwards, we would string him/her up by his/her toenails. Please forgive my attitude. I just can't get excited about another celestial visitation right now. Invisible heavenly helpers, fine. Bring em on. But visible, incarnated helpers? No. I don't want to feel even remotely responsible for being around when they are brought down by the heathen. We have suffered under that kind of guilt for 2,000 years. And under the circumstances, if the universe supervisors would send another emissary, I would not give my hearty approval if they should opt to send a woman to do a man's job.

So there. Now you have it. My own sexism on display. It is the male who is supposed to go out and slay the dragons while Mama keeps the home fires burning. Not to say she has to stay in the kitchen, but ....

From where do I get that idea? The Urantia Papers. The part where it talks about Michael and the Divine Minister providing the example of the ideal male/female relationship. Don't know what page that's on.

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I'm just butting in this conversation because a thought occurred to me. :shock: Celestial beings are referred to as male and female out of convention and for ease of understanding on a "sex" planet. All deity descending from the Father and Son are described as masculine whereas all deity descending from the Infinite Spirit are described as feminine. I don't think they have a true sex orientation, so why all the "tahdo" about it? Just wondern'. :?:

"Nevertheless, in dealing with sex creatures it is our custom to speak of those beings of more direct descent from the Father and the Son as the sons of God, while referring to the children of the Spirit as the daughters of God. Angels are, therefore, commonly designated by feminine pronouns on the sex planets." 419:02

iris


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O.K. So you don't send a women to do a man's job Gerdean. And Iris points out with her apt TUB excerpt:

it is our custom to speak of those beings of more direct descent from the Father and the Son as the sons of God, while referring to the children of the Spirit as the daughters of God

And then we have this interesting excerpt where a "Material Daughter" is a direct descent creation of a Creator Son. And is an expression of the creator Sons "original dual origin". I believe this is related to the Mother/ Son aspect of Jesus. So the male and female pattern are both descendent from HIM. And we must remember NOTHING material can exist without the Mother's input. And while it is a "custom" to call descendent from the Father and Son, "sons". And forms from the Spirit daughters. Of a "Material Daughter" being referred to as a SON when reffered to in the plural form of Her Kind. So couldn't a Daughter also be referred to as a SON in the Teacher category of SON? (Teacher-SON). Like it is in the Material Son category? Or for that matter in any SON category?

then does the Creator Son personalize in dual form his last concept of being, thus finally confirming his own and original dual origin. In and of himself he then creates the beautiful and superb Sons and Daughters of the material order of universe sonship. This is the origin of the original Adam and Eve of each local system of Nebadon. They are a reproducing order of sonship, being created male and female.

In this next excerpt we see that midsoniters also come in the male female persuasion. What do midsoniters do? Aren't midwayers also somewhat male and female in their dual origin types?

P.938 - §9 The differences of nature, reaction, viewpoint, and thinking between men and women, far from occasioning concern, should be regarded as highly beneficial to mankind, both individually and collectively. Many orders of universe creatures are created in dual phases of personality manifestation. Among mortals, Material Sons, and midsoniters, this difference is described as male and female

I see the SEX differentiation does seem to cause problems in that it makes us seem like we aren't the same types of order. But we forget about the VALUE of Dual-origin beings in being better able to provide service to God and each other in God's creation.

We can't ignore the fact that we express our godliness better when we understand each others complimentary dual origin natures.

:smile: P.933 - §6 It may be that the instinct of motherhood led woman into marriage, but it was man's superior strength, together with the influence of the mores, that virtually compelled her to remain in wedlock. Pastoral living tended to create a new system of mores, the patriarchal type of family life; and the basis of family unity under the herder and early agricultural mores was the unquestioned and arbitrary authority of the father. All society, whether national or familial, passed through the stage of the autocratic authority of a patriarchal order.

P.934 - §1 The scant courtesy paid womankind during the Old Testament era is a true reflection of the mores of the herdsmen. The Hebrew patriarchs were all herdsmen, as is witnessed by the saying, "The Lord is my Shepherd."

P.934 - §2 But man was no more to blame for his low opinion of woman during past ages than was woman herself. She failed to get social recognition during primitive times because she did not function in an emergency; she was not a spectacular or crisis hero. Maternity was a distinct disability in the existence struggle; mother love handicapped women in the tribal defense.

P.934 - §3 Primitive women also unintentionally created their dependence on the male by their admiration and applause for his pugnacity and virility. This exaltation of the warrior elevated the male ego while it equally depressed that of the female and made her more dependent; a military uniform still mightily stirs the feminine emotions.

P.934 - §4 Among the more advanced races, women are not so large or so strong as men. Woman, being the weaker, therefore became the more tactful; she early learned to trade upon her sex charms. She became more alert and conservative than man, though slightly less profound. Man was woman's superior on the battlefield and in the hunt; but at home woman has usually outgeneraled even the most primitive of men.

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Last edited by Joer on Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:47 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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I'm just pickin' on you, JoeR. :wink:

But these excerpts are discussing the HISTORY of marriage and family life on this planet, not necessarily an ideal of any sort. I find all those snippets to be generalizations and not necessarily integral to enlightened humanity.

P.933 - §6 refers to a stage of the autocratic authority of a patriarchal order. It is not the final answer.

P.934 - §1 refers to a bunch of ignorant herders.

P.934 - §2 is a bit too cavalierly stated. A woman can hardly be blamed because she did not function in an emergency, if the emergency is beyond her ability to handle, and many a woman who does not allow the male (ego) to do the "important" stuff is prone to get smacked upside the head!

P.934 - §3 reminds me that, thankfully!, "the times, they are a changin." Except for a few die-hards, uniforms have not had that effect on women since they burned their bras.

P.934 - §4. I don't know about "tactful." Co-dependent is a word I would use. Manipulative, maybe. Underhanded, conniving, scheming perhaps. It's a pathetic game, that's for sure. Trading upon her sex charms is a sure way to guarantee she will stay a second-class citizen. It will also send the message to the men that it is okay to be macho. (yukko! puke!)

She became more "alert" so he didn't smack her upside the head! And more "conservative" because he has no idea what stuff costs these days! "Slightly less profound" my eye! I suppose if I sat around batting my eyelashes night and day I could be perceived as slightly less profound but ... I don't think this observation holds water. Not among enlightened people.

When we look at the situation in the Garden, by comparison, we see that on day one, THEY saw the extent of their isolation, on day two, THEY learned more about the details of thir circumstance in terms of the world's progress. On the third day THEY inspected the grounds; on the fourth day, THEY addressed the people with their plans, ending with a feast for the men and women who had been selected to assume responsibilities in the new administration of world affairs. And
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Take note! women as well as men were in this group, and that was the first time such a thing had occurred on earth since the days of Dalamatia. It was an astounding innovation to behold Eve, a woman, sharing the honors and responsibilities of world affairs with a man.
My point being that THEY did this TOGETHER. Adam did not tend to the administrative affairs while Eve stayed home and cooked. She was not considered a second-class citizen. She did not have to trade on her sex charms. She did not have to bat her eyelashes to get Adam to get off the couch and take out the trash.

And later, when Jesus came, he did the emancipation proclamation thing, setting women forever free of that limiting role of staying home and having babies while the man got to spread the good news of the gospel.

Yes, you do detect a strident tone in my voice. I am rather zealous about it. I am not a feminazi, no, but I do believe that co-dependence is fatal, and if we continue extolling the roles that make women submissive and subservient to the autocratic male rule, if we limit our perspective to that of the back woods, if men's egos demand the fluttering eyelash kind of woman to justify their uniform, we're NEVER going to get to light and life because we will have slaughtered each other and everybody else in the plunge down the slipperly slope into barbarism and annihilation!

It is my opinion that we are sent out two and two. If we feel our task is the maintenance of civilization, then we should make babies and bring home the bacon, with both parties working on the same page [just like Michael and the Divine Minister worked together to create their universe and raise their children]. And if we feel our task is to be ambassadors of a heavenly kingdom, then both parties ought to be sufficiently like-minded that they work together on the same page [just as Adam and Eve did when they created their Garden universe to raise their children].

My point being that it takes two and neither is more than the other in any context. If and as one is considered more important, more this, more that, or more whatever than the other, that means that the other has to be considered less important, less this, less that, or less whatever, and when that happens, there is trouble right here in River City. Equal is equal is equal.

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Gerdean, :smile:
Picking on me? O:) To the contrary. As a matter of fact I agree with everything you said. And Most of the way you said it. :o You were right on with your responses to those last quotes in that post. This quote reminds me of what you've done here.

Quote:
P.2076 - §9... Modern science has left true religion--the teachings of Jesus as translated in the lives of his believers--untouched. All science has done is to destroy the childlike illusions of the misinterpretations of life.
The things you said, "destroy the childlike illusions of the misinterpretations" of gender understanding. It was sweet! I thought you were softening up a bit on the correction needed to heal gender misunderstanding. But now I see what I was looking for very well stated and profoundly true. Thank You Gerdean.

What do you think about these ideas. To me They seem a bit less obvious than the perspective you put on those old stereotypes. How about the idea that there's this feminine pattern contained within The Son? it seems to me we are still overlooking that. What do you think?
Iris wrote:
Quote:
it is our custom to speak of those beings of more direct descent from the Father and the Son as the sons of God, while referring to the children of the Spirit as the daughters of God


And then we have this interesting excerpt where a "Material Daughter" is a direct descent creation of a Creator Son. And is an expression of the creator Sons "original dual origin". I believe this is related to the Mother/ Son aspect of Jesus. So the male and female pattern are both descendent from HIM. And we must remember NOTHING material can exist without the Mother's input. And while it is a "custom" to call descendent from the Father and Son, "sons". And forms from the Spirit, daughters. If a "Material Daughter" is being referred to as a SON when referred to in the plural form of Her Kind, So couldn't a Daughter also be referred to as a SON in the Teacher category of SON? (Teacher-SON). Like it is in the Material Son category? Or for that matter in any SON category?

Quote:
P.415 - §1...then does the Creator Son personalize in dual form his last concept of being, thus finally confirming his own and original dual origin. In and of himself he then creates the beautiful and superb Sons and Daughters of the material order of universe sonship. This is the origin of the original Adam and Eve of each local system of Nebadon. They are a reproducing order of sonship, being created male and female.

In this next excerpt we see that midsoniters also come in the male female persuasion. What do midsoniters do? Aren't midwayers also somewhat male and female in their dual origin types?

Quote:
P.938 - §9 The differences of nature, reaction, viewpoint, and thinking between men and women, far from occasioning concern, should be regarded as highly beneficial to mankind [humankind], both individually and collectively. Many orders of universe creatures are created in dual phases of personality manifestation. Among mortals, Material Sons, and midsoniters, this difference is described as male and female


I see the SEX differentiation does seem to cause problems in that it makes us seem like we aren't the same types of order. But we forget about the VALUE of Dual-origin beings in being better able to provide service to God and each other in God's creation.

We can't ignore the fact that we express our godliness better when we understand each others complimentary dual origin natures.


So my main question [b]to all here
is can our next major important celestial visitor be a female of the dual origin type in a Teacher-Son category?

Thank You and God Bless! :smile:
[/b]

_________________
Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


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Joe, the answer to your last question is of course, yes it could be. However, my questions, based on this current discussion, are:

1) What does it mean if it is not a female of the dual origin type in a Teacher-Son category?

2) Does it mean anything? Are we stretching this discussion beyond any significant meaning related to the obvious that humans come in the male and female flavors? This is feeling a bit strained to me.

All the best, Ray


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Howdy, folks.

Hey, Joe. I'm going to pick on you a little, too. :smile:

Personally, the identity or gender of our next Teacher is about the furthest thing from my mind. I'm more of an "It's now, be here", kind of guy.

You keep repeating,
Quote:
We can't ignore the fact that we express our godliness better when we understand each others complimentary dual origin natures.


Perhaps this is a fact, and perhaps it isn't. But allowing for a moment that there is some truth to it, then we must next consider how we actually go about "understanding each others complimentary dual origin natures."

Is this "understanding" best achieved by dissecting every quote in The Urantia Book that relates to gender differences?

Or is it achieved by wringing our hands over all the evil in the world which victimizes women?

Or is it best achieved by living a life among women and men, treating each one we meet as an individual who might be anywhere on the vast spectrum of human potential, regardless of gender? A life which is dedicated to following and applying the incomparable teachings of Jesus, Michael of Nebadon incarnate. It has been suggested previously in this thread that the application of these teachings is "unrealistic" in some circumstances. To me, there can be no better course to "godliness" under any circumstances than to steadfastly follow the example and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, our incarnate Universe Sovereign. Did He not say, "When you have seen me, you have seen the Father."?

That's about as good as it gets for me.

I'm not saying that our forum discussions don't have value. If nothing else, they provide a mechanism for fellowship. And people all over the world are better informed about the contents of The Urantia Book as a result of these discussions. And that's all to the good. But the intellectual mastery of this or any other topic provides no "secret key" to our evolving "godliness". And after a certain point, it begins to look as though we're arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

I'll end with a quote from a neighbor of Ray's. A pretty smart cowboy from Claremore, Oklahoma. Everything I ever heard him say was smart, but most of it so witty it took you a moment to notice how smart it was. I only heard him say one thing that didn't make me laugh. And that was partly because it was so powerfully true that my funny bone was momentarily paralyzed. I guess he knew that would happen, because he didn't even try and make it funny. Here it is:

"People's minds are changed through observation and not through argument."

Will Rogers

That's the smartest thing I ever heard any cowboy say. And it is also central to the teachings of Jesus, if I remember correctly.

And a good place to stop.

Peace,
Arc


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AMEN ARC,

You've nailed my sentiments on this topic.


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I believe it is possible to transcend gender. I believe this is what Jesus did. It is something I also very much appreciate. As an animal-origin creature, I certainly can and do make observations based on my animal-origin self-interests, as I am sure any creature will do. But the other part of my dual nature is divine. I am indwelt by a spark of the infinite! I have a fragment of God within me, which raises me from the level of mere animal. It is the God fragment, indwelling the human animal, that provides men and women their dual nature. Not gender.

But getting back to transcending gender. Unless and until we can see people for who they are, inclusive of their God fragment, as a child of God (regardless of gender), it is as if, in seeing each other only from our animal perspective, we are only utilizing five of the seven adjutant mind spirits. Like the animal kingdom, we are utilizing the spirits of intuition, understanding, courage, knowledge and counsel, but we stop short of the spirits of worship and wisdom. As long as we continue to see each other as animals only, virtually as sex objects, we are depriving ourselves and these others of our potential. We stay stuck at a lower level of evolution.

I do think humanity is stuck on the animal level (and if you don't think so, look at the commercials during the football games) and it needs/we need to break on through to the other side; this will allow the light of the spirit to invade our space, so that the Spirit of Truth can begin to operate. It is fruitless to talk about future visitations, or speculate on what gender it will be. The thing to do is to plow the field and prepare the soil first. In my opinion, the whole idea of star-gazing and mooning over some some-day arrival of another Son -- or Daughter! -- is irrelevant at this point, and distracts from the tasks at hand.

Now. If you want to talk about each person having within them both male and female aspects. Hormones. Chromosomes. That's a dual nature of another definition. That's bisexuality.

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Well, I have to agree that we can go nowhere fast (or slow) by guessing on the gender of the next 'visitation"...we'll probably torture and kill that one also.

At this time, as Gerdean mentioned, the two genders are living more out of a co-dependency than any type of inter-dependence. Geez...we have to learn one person at a time, one couple at a time, one family unit at a time. We're each still in our own little bubble of a world and no matter how much we strive toward the "goal", that other person of another gender is going to keep stepping into our bubble (and remind us that we're very much human). Each time that occurs, do we...Fight or cooperate? Submit or dominate? Avoid or engage? Trust and cooperate?

We want so much for this to be all about our spirits, but we're in the flesh and it's about gender, and how it is used. On this planet it's been reduced to objectified sex which is synonymous with violence, greed, power, control, etc...it's all a head rush (in more ways than one). It permeates every facet of our lives, every institution in every society on this planet, from the highest office in a country, every so-called religion, to the couple behind closed doors, to the two kids standing on a street corner.
I don't consider myself a "feminazi" either... (that word was conjured up in an effort to negate any efforts to move forward...as in stifle/control)...but to ignore our history of surviving through violence is to continue with the same animalistic behavior. Has there ever existed a group of people who were held in bondage who didn't at some point revolt? They either took whatever action was needed, by whatever means available, or they died off. Women won't die off...if for no other reason than we're needed for comfort, work, breeding and fodder...so men will continue to control their control.


We will not escape our gender. From what I understand we will learn to embrace, accept and utilize our created differences in a united participation...instead of doing battle b/c of our fear.

84:6.6 Men and women need each other in their morontial and spiritual as well as in their mortal careers. The differences in viewpoint between male and female persist even beyond the first life and throughout the local and superuniverse ascensions. And even in Havona, the pilgrims who were once men and women will still be aiding each other in the Paradise ascent. Never, even in the Corps of the Finality, will the creature metamorphose so far as to obliterate the personality trends that humans call male and female; always will these two basic variations of humankind continue to intrigue, stimulate, encourage, and assist each other; always will they be mutually dependent on co-operation in the solution of perplexing universe problems and in the overcoming of manifold cosmic difficulties.

This not only gives me hope but I'm looking forward to learning without the fear of any physical threat. Now that sounds sweet!


Ok...I kinda got on a roll here. Haven't been keeping up w/this the last few days b/c of my schedule...reading it in one swoop kinda pushed my buttons. But I'm all better now...at least until someone steps into my little bubble.

Peace
Jo


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Hi All.
I am a new reader of the UB. I have been watching your posts on this subject with much interest. Hope it is okay for me to interject a little personal insight here even though I am not an authority on the UB. I am very familiar with the teachings of Jesus and strive to encounter people in my daily living with "the heart of Jesus".

Iris, I love your quote from the UB instructing us to address each other by focusing on each other's Spirit, not intellect or emotions. Our emotions are so powerful that some times it is easy to let them rule. And our intellect is so "ME" oriented that it some times rules as well. But listening to each other's Spirit is a little more difficult and does not come naturally to most of us in this loud world where we are overwhelmed with over stimulus.

Jo, your post touched my heart. Sounds like you have been hurt deeply. I hear fear in your words. It is so natural to be angry when we are hurt. But hopefully we move through anger and get some where closer to peace as we refuse to give in to fear. Time seems to be a healer as well as meditation on Jesus' comforting words. Jesus does not want us to get "stuck" in a victim mode. He wants to heal us. I've also found it very helpful to talk to people who have made it through and are experiencing "the peace that surpasses all understanding". This elicits hope in my own journey.

So, fear not, Jo. Many of us (women and men) have suffered injustices, losses, injuries and assaults and by the Grace of God and much work we have come through stronger more compassionate human beings. My personal experience truly is, "what don't kill you will make you stronger". :smile:

I am fortunate to share a loving honest inter-dependent relationship with a man. I call him on it if he begins to make me feel intimidated and he calls me on it if I begin to make him feel intimidated. Feeling free to express my self in one of the most important relationships in my life is vital. This lesson of self expression has been one tough journey but I am living the fruits of my labor so to speak. By surviving first and then refusing to get stuck or become a victim by dwelling on the negative I have been blessed with a Spirit of Victor.

I pray that you too experience the Spirit of victor on your journey to healing.

Peace,
Claire


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Wow! Lot’s of good stuff. To me it’s good because it is genuine expression from the hearts of my friends offered out to me and others simultaneously for the betterment of the realization of our spiritual lives. :smile:

Arc-
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But the intellectual mastery of this or any other topic provides no "secret key" to our evolving "godliness". And after a certain point, it begins to look as though we're arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.


Exactly. It's not the mastery. It is the understanding we can garner to help us each at whatever spiritual crossroad we're at. :smile:

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To me, there can be no better course to "godliness" under any circumstances than to steadfastly follow the example and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, our incarnate Universe Sovereign. Did He not say, "When you have seen me, you have seen the Father."?

You’re right Arc. But what about The Mother? When do we see Her? Could it be in the female pattern Jesus created us in? Woman.
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then we must next consider how we actually go about "understanding each others complimentary dual origin natures."

That’s it Arc. That's what I'm talking about. That’s the crux of this discussion. How do we go about it. The Details. The art of living a God-like life here on earth. We can follow a general maxim like:
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To me, there can be no better course to "godliness" under any circumstances than to steadfastly follow the example and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, our incarnate Universe Sovereign.

But how’s does that maxim translate into how you live your life? Certainly we all want to follow the example and teachings of Jesus. But how do we determine when the daily decisions we make, the understandings we have, and the things we promote are in accordance with Jesus’ teachings? We use our discernment based on the BEST understanding we have of what we’re doing when reflected off the background of Jesus’’ teachings and life. I mean isn’t that how it works for us Arc?

My goal in this thread is to hone that discernment down to the sharpest understanding I can get in relation to OUR understanding and OUR recognition of the feminine and female aspects of our most basic existence. The God-like pattern from which we we’re formed.

And the reason I’m exploring that for myself is because I believe that the changes pending and the correction necessary in our human (men and women) perception of the God-determined-form of men and women are imminently important. And from that generalization it gets expressed all the way down to literally thousands of tiny singular acts that express our attitude, respect (or lack of), understanding (or lack of) and recognition (or lack of) of HOW GOD WANTS US TO ACT TOWARD WOMEN in each and everyone of those tiny miniscule things we do towards women in every instant of everyone of our lives. Do you leave the Toilet Seat up or down? WWJD? It may seem silly. But every act we do for God is an important act no matter how small. IMHO.

To express it in way our old friend, Ray’s neighbor, might, as he jumped to and fro through, the expertly twirled lasso twisting and turning, rising and lowering, in an unbelievable show of motion and coordination, without fouling the lasso, while maintaining a clarity of thought to continue, without hesitation, those western style witticisms of profound truth. He might say in regards to out treatment of women based on our best understanding, “Are we doin’ it right?”

Of course he would express it much better than I ever could. He was very very good at it. He impressed me, at young age and I’m remain impressed.

Ray, Iris, Arc and others sorry about the straining.

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This is feeling a bit strained to me.

Ditto on that.

It is the God fragment, indwelling the human animal, that provides men and women their dual nature. Not gender.

It seems like some of you think I’m focusing on the wrong thing. All of what you say about God-fragment and divine nature within us being supreme and of foremost importance in our experience with others is true. And the fact that we should treat and love each other in a god-like fashion regardless of gender is true.

But (oh no! Here we go again!) IMHO if we overlook the divine dual origin male and female pattern we are created in (which is from the Mother/Son as opposed to the Father fragment which is from the Father) AND the divine purpose of the differentiation of that pattern into male and female forms, we will be lacking in the level of spirituality we can attain based on the God like co-creative experience we can share, just as Jo and TUB put it.

Jo
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We will not escape our gender. From what I understand we will learn to embrace, accept and utilize our created differences in a united participation...instead of doing battle b/c of our fear.


TUB
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P.938 - §9 The differences of nature, reaction, viewpoint, and thinking between men and women, far from occasioning concern, should be regarded as highly beneficial to mankind [humankind], both individually and collectively. Many orders of universe creatures are created in dual phases of personality manifestation. Among mortals, Material Sons, and midsoniters, this difference is described as male and female


God Bless You All! And thank you for loving me enough to put me to the test. I really like that. Because it's in the testing where our truths and beliefs are refined.

It's a very presious gift and service you ALL give me. It's a service to my Eternal Self vs. my Mortal Self. :smile: I am in your debt. :smile: Always! :smile:

_________________
Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


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