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Are women treated different than men on the internet?
Yes 65%  65%  [ 11 ]
No 35%  35%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 17
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Gerdean,

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Men don't seem reluctant to do and acquire what is in their interests; but man does not see women's liberation as being in his interest. Thus, while it may be perceived that it is "inertia" that stills the hand that rocks the cradle and fraternizes with destiny, from a woman's perspective it is "control." Similar to the dog that keeps getting under your feet or the cat that sits on your computer mouse, they want your undivided attention at best, and at the least they do not want their creature comforts (status quo) inconvenienced.


Do you consider that dog or cat to be your equal?

Hi Iris!

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I don't think we can make a blanket claim that women tend to be more patient than men.


A blanket claim would be something like "all women are more patient than all men." I did not say that. I will say I believe it takes more patience for a hand to rock the cradle than it does for a finger to pull a trigger or push a button.

Why can't we let an oak be an oak,

a maple be a maple,

and a tadpole be a tadpole?

Randy

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Last edited by rhermen on Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:10 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Hey Randy,

Maybe you missed the part where I said "we" not "you". I was putting my observations out there for everyone, not just you.

Doesn't matter though. I think we see this thing alike. I'll let Randy just be Randy, and better yet, let patience just be patience, there for everyone to practice.

Cheers, iris


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Ditto Iris, but I was not making a blanket claim. I too was just making observations which is why I said "quite often."

Jo says:
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Please don't tell me this is going to deteriorate into it was all Eve's fault.


I hope not because neither the Daughters of Eve nor the Sons of Adam are at fault. Another observation (not intended to point a finger at anyone in particular) is anytime we point out faults in someone else we must demonstrate our own faults at the same time.

Randy

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Last edited by rhermen on Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:19 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Hullo.

No, Randy, I do not think cats and dogs are our equals. But they do have five of the seven adjutant mind spirits, which gives me an opportunity to observe domestic animal behaviors. I have learned a great deal about myself (and others) through my (and their) interactions and relationships with my (and their) pets. In fact, men and women living intimately, in close proximity, as people do in their homes, are often not at all unlike the way littermates behave.

It is not all about control; it is about cooperation. If we know what to expect from one another -- whether the cat can take care of its own hairballs or if it needs to be brushed, for instance -- then the parameters of home life -- self-maintenance, self-gratification, and self-perpetuation -- can be established, and homelife can become as a living organism where everybody purrs instead of becoming an armed camp where all the women "Stay!" and all the men "Speak!" and all the children "Heel!"

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Gerdean,

Cooperation as defined by whom?

So if you cooperate with your dog or cat then perhaps they won't get under your feet or sit on your computer mouse (or pee on the floor) as way of objecting to the way in which they have been treated?

I was once told by a woman boss that male employees must cooperate by lifting the toilet seat and putting it back down when using the only bathroom of her store.

I do my best to refrain from peeing on the floor or the toilet seat. I have even cleaned up my own mess should an accident occur, but I will not be discriminated against just because I'm a man. I suppose in the interest of "cooperation" I could just sit down to pee...that probably would've made my boss happy and saved my job as well.

Likewise, I suppose cats could take care of their own hairballs and brush themselves to keep their "owner" happy.

Another observation, and not an attempt to point fingers but, sometimes "cooperation" is Orwellian doublespeak for "control." Another obsevation: no one enjoys being treated as "property" neither men nor women. Being treated as property is another kind of abuse.

Randy

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"Someday religionists will get together and actually effect co-operation on the basis of unity of ideals and purposes rather than attempting to do so on the basis of psychological opinions and theological beliefs." 1091:06


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Bow wow!

I have heard that "caring is the sunny side of control" and have seen it demonstrated, but not always, otherwise we would have to think of Jesus as a control freak and the apostles as trained seals.

It seems we have lost continuity here and somehow got distracted peeing on the floor and/or lifting the seat, so I will go curl up behind the stove for awhile. When I smell food, I'll come out and sniff around.

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Hi! This will be short as I must get off to work.

I believe that God has a female aspect to his personality, as well as a female by his side, Mother God. We were all formed in his likeness and I believe our Heavenly Mother helped in that design.

He made male and female with similar hormones but in different percentages. He made us different in that way and many other ways for a reason. We are to complement each other and bring out the best in each other's male and female sides! :smile:

Always, spiritsoars54 Mm~

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Hi! This will be short as I must get off to work.

I believe that God has a female aspect to his personality, as well as a female by his side, Mother God. We were all formed in his likeness and I believe our Heavenly Mother helped in that design.

He made male and female with similar hormones but in different percentages. He made us different in that way and many other ways for a reason. We are to complement each other and bring out the best in each other's male and female sides!
Always, spiritsoars54 Mm~
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I am in need of spiritual conversation as I have none with any of my co-workers, etc. HELP! I think I have forgotten how to be spiritually interactive!


spiritsoars54! Thank You. :smile: What you just stated is EXACTLY what this thread is about.

There are so many cool things about having a new person join in.

Having a fresh perspective without built-up personality conflicts interfering with the subject of the thread.

Having the joy of seeing a the expression of wonder and joy of a person becoming excited over finding a place where their visions of religion and spirituality find complimentary and commensurate expressions in like.

It just very exciting Spiritsoars! Thank You for your perspective.

Oh yeah one more thing I find exciting is when I see something that I believe is a world wide spiritual awakening with celestial or divine influences. And recognizing that it is arriving in peoples minds from a variety of sources. I don't where you got the perspective you've just expressed Spiritsoars BUT I do recognize and welcome it's content.

Bless You Spiritsoars. And Thank you so much Jo for the welcome back. My trip didn't turn out anything like I expected and there were plenty of spontaneous expression and chances for spiritual advancement for my self and those with whom I came in contact with. It actually turned into much more of a spiritual service trip than a material one.

Thank You Jo for your warm welcome. It felt good. And you're probably right about male and female anger we expressed toward our opposite gender before. We may have had something in common there. I am sorry and even somewhat ashamed for the things I have done in the past, but I'm so thankful for those here who have been so tolerate and accepting of me. I want to get better like so many others here. And in small steps I do see improvement. I just wish I could change for the better faster. :smile:

Thank You again all of you here. :smile:

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I would rather refer to God's "feminine" aspects and "masculine" aspects than to say
Quote:
God has a female aspect to his personality
.

Feminine is more defining than female, as we may unconsciously relate the word "female" to attributes that are not really feminine.

Jesus represents (is) the "feminine" attributes of God, as expressing His love, compassion, wisdom, understanding, and all other aspects that belong to the feminine side of God.

We, too, have a feminine and masculine side. Some more feminine in expression and some more masculine in expression. It makes for a beautiful person when the feminine and masculine are in balance in an individual. The Infinite Spirit may well be the balance between the Father and Jesus.

Thanks for reading
KP :!:


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Hi!
Thanks KP for restating my thoughts/beliefs! I agree that feminine is much more appropriate way to describe God's many aspects.

When I think of all the different personalities we all have, and I think we are all part of God's persona - WOW! :shock: It is amazing and he loves each and everyone of us, individually :!: Isn't it wonderful :?:

It's back to work for me :| but I am grateful he has blessed me with this job :idea:

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KP wrote:
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Jesus represents (is) the "feminine" attributes of God, as expressing His love, compassion, wisdom, understanding, and all other aspects that belong to the feminine side of God.

We, too, have a feminine and masculine side. Some more feminine in expression and some more masculine in expression. It makes for a beautiful person when the feminine and masculine are in balance in an individual. The Infinite Spirit may well be the balance between the Father and Jesus.

Thanks, good stuff KP. By referring to feminine and masculine attributes of God I believe it makes it easier to approach others in Organized Religion with these ideas. Even those the Bible has plenty of Feminine expressions of God Many are still stuck in masculine mode and are slow to acknowledge the Feminine aspects of God.

In the bible you have Sophia, wisdom referred to in the feminine the Holy Spirit referred to in the feminine God as Mother Jesus as Mother. Daughters of God’s, I don’t’ if angels are referred to as feminine in the Bible. But for those to whom the Bible is the definitive answer to questions about God it’s good to know about those parts that refer to God in the Feminine. Like the presence of God on earth being referred to as the Shakina (I forget how to spell it) If you do a search on it using the search function on this site you’ll pull up a few threads where it was discussed.

Then as you can see in this thread there are a lot of feminine expressions of God mentioned in TUB.

Soars wrote:
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When I think of all the different personalities we all have, and I think we are all part of God's persona - WOW! It is amazing and he loves each and everyone of us, individually Isn't it wonderful

Exactly Soars, it was within the last couple of years that realization hit me to. How each one of us is an individual. I finally saw it as an expression of God’s infiniteness. Just as the ever-expanding universe is a part of God’s infiniteness so is the uniqueness of each of us as individuals. Pretty Cool, right Soars? :smile:

Wait don’t answer now. :shock: Get back to work! :? I don’t want you to get fired because you’ve finally found this site that reflects the truths you’ve found out on your own. It’s gets addictive when you finally find others that GET what your talking about!

Cheers KP and Soars. :smile: It’s so cool that you’ve found this site. God bless You and the other new folks who have made our day by finding and posting on this site. :smile:

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Howdy everybody! :smile: God's blessings be with you.

During Thanksgiving I had a chance to run into a couple of TUB readers one of whom lead me back to reading it (TUB) in the early eighties when I ask him about harvesting energy from the earth’s magnetic field.

In addition my sister gave me a magazine with an interesting article in it which I read right then and there. The magazine was the Biblical Archaeology Review November/December 2006 edition. http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org. The article was Rediscovering the Kathisma – Where Mary Rested. Almost immediately I was caught by the lead-in to the article:

Quote:
P.44 “For many centuries the Protoevangelium of James was an enormously popular and influential apocryphal gospel. Written in the latter half of the second century, purportedly by Jesus’ brother James, it tells of the birth of Mary and, later, of Jesus. It is charming and moving and in the best gospel tradition.”

James presented as Jesus’ brother? Plain enough for TUB, but unusual to be presented that way in other sources. Let alone scientific ones. And the Gospel of James (Jesus’ brother), why haven’t I seen that before?

Well as the article continued I found several connections to TUB and a lost popular and accepted celebration of another feminine aspect of God. The celebration of Mary as the Mother of God. Guess when. The middle of August. The month TUB states as the month of Jesus’ birth. Another connection to TUB. And the time frame for the archaeological discovery and revival of this lost or deliberately hidden celebration of Mary the Mother of God celebrating HER GIVING BIRTH TO GOD ON EARTH1993 to 1997. Just about 40 years AFTER TUB published the birth of Jesus as August 21st.

Well I was hooked. It’s Google Time.

Here’s a little bit of the Google and article stuff I found compared to TUB.
Images of the Mother of God: Perceptions of the Theotokos in Byzantium
By Maria Vasilakē (a woman by the way) :smile:

On P65 in this book it says, “However, the feast of the Kathisma occurred on 13 August, against the background of the Dormintion and the Assumption of the Virgin Mary. Fortunately, the liturgical reading for this day has been preserved in a Georgian version in the ancient Mravalthavi.

TUB gives the following account of this same period in August.
Quote:
P.1350 - §…. And so this Jewish couple went forth from their humble home early on the morning of August 18, 7 B.C., on their journey to Bethlehem.

P.1351 - §2 …. Early in the morning of August 20 they resumed their journey, reaching Jerusalem before noon, visiting the temple, and going on to their destination, arriving at Bethlehem in mid afternoon.

P.1351 - §5 All that night Mary was restless so that neither of them slept much. By the break of day the pangs of childbirth were well in evidence, and at noon, August 21, 7 B.C., with the help and kind ministrations of women fellow travelers, Mary was delivered of a male child. Jesus of Nazareth was born into the world, was wrapped in the clothes which Mary had brought along for such a possible contingency, and laid in a near-by manger.

Additionally in the article, Rediscovering the Kathisma – Where Mary Rested it states:

Quote:
P. 44 “When they get 3 miles of Bethlehem, Mary feels labor pains and asks Joseph to take her down from the donkey. There she apparently sat down on a rock –and this is the whole point of this article- while Joseph found a cave where she could have some privacy. Joseph then went off to search for a midwife. Mary, however, could not wait and gave birth to Jesus in the cave.

This backs up the story in TUB of Joseph finding a “cave” (albeit manmade hewn out of rock) And taking Mary there with “curtains” for “privacy”.

Quote:
P.1351 - §3 The inn was overcrowded, and Joseph accordingly sought lodgings with distant relatives, but every room in Bethlehem was filled to overflowing. On returning to the courtyard of the inn, he was informed that the caravan stables, hewn out of the side of the rock and situated just below the inn, had been cleared of animals and cleaned up for the reception of lodgers. Leaving the donkey in the courtyard, Joseph shouldered their bags of clothing and provisions and with Mary descended the stone steps to their lodgings below. They found themselves located in what had been a grain storage room to the front of the stalls and mangers. Tent curtains had been hung, and they counted themselves fortunate to have such comfortable quarters.
Now the article follows with:

Quote:
P. 46 “And now Dr. Rina Avner has written her doctoral dissertation at the University of Haifa on the evacuation of the Kathisma.
What she found was the church built to mark the spot where the Virgin Mary stopped –and sat- just before giving birth to her son.
Well it’s not exactly a church. It’s first and foremost a martyrium, a special structure that also functions as a church (or mosque) to mark the place of a holy event”
P 47 “Indeed like the martyrium at St. Peter’s house, the Kathisma church is three concentric octagons.” …The initial construction occurred in the mid-5th century. Already by that time , a holy day was being observed at the site in [b]mid-August (the exact date changed from time to time) [/b]dedicated to Mary Mother of God. This was apparently the earliest holiday dedicated to Mary, even earlier than the holiday observed at the site in Jerusalem from which tradition (and a church) holds that she was assumed, body and soul, into heaven after her death. All we know about the Kathisma observance is that it involved a candle lit procession. According to Avner, the Kathisma was the first of several churches built to express solidarity with the ecumenical councils of Ephesius (431) and Chalcedon (451), which officially recognized and confirmed Mary’s status as Theotokos (“Mother of God”).”

There are several important points here some more pertinent to this thread in terms of recognizing the emergent new revaluing of women’s input into life and as aspects of God in religion, and spirituality. Dr. Rina Avner is a woman. And her impetus into this discovery and scientific verification as to it’s historical authenticity is no little feat. There are and were many male dominated forces working against her, the least of which was a daunting lack of interest in the male community in bringing forth this little known fact of celebration of this highly revered and respected Feminine “Mother of God” event that took place in the birthing of Jesus into the world.

Another point without apparent gender significance is this” “Indeed like the martyrium at St. Peter’s house, the Kathisma church is three concentric octagons.” I wonder if there was at that time an old significance of trinity deity of the three concentric circles in TUB that was incorporated into this martyrium structure of Holy Religious significance?

One more thing that is important to point out at this point. The Mother of Jesus influence much revered by Muslims.
Quote:
P.51 “However, Muslims, too, honor Mary, and the Qur’an refers to Mary’s labor pains while she sat beneath a palm tree. So perhaps in the Arab period, the structure was shared by Christians and Muslims.
Just off the southeast corner of the mosque area is a lovely mosaic of an elaborate Palm Tree. One is left to wonder weather the Muslim mosaic is in remembrance of Mary’s Labor pains as she sat beneath a palm tree.”

Continuing on in TUB comparisons is the rare mention of Mary’s parents names. I heard them first in TUB.
Quote:
P.1347 - §1 Upon her return, Mary went to visit her parents, Joachim and Hannah. Her two brothers and two sisters, as well as her parents, were always very skeptical about the divine mission of Jesus, though, of course, at this time they knew nothing of the Gabriel visitation. But Mary did confide to her sister Salome that she thought her son was destined to become a great teacher.

Now I find out, one of those books the Church conveniently let slip under the carpet, backs up more TUB stuff. Besides the cave for a manger and as I said before, the mention of James as Jesus’ brother, not a cousin as so many suggest trying to maintain Mary’s virginity. Now we find the names of Mary’s parents

Quote:
The Protoevangelium of James
http://www.philthompson.net/pages/library/protevangelion.htm

The gospel of James

James 4:8-9
(8) Then, Joachim came with his flocks. Anna was standing at the gate. (9) When she saw Joachim coming with his flocks, Anna ran and wrapped herself around his neck, saying, "Now I know that the Lord God has blessed me greatly. See, the widow is no longer a widow and the childless woman has conceived in her womb."

James 5:5-10
(5) And his wife's pregnancy came to term. After nine months, Anna gave birth (6) and she said to the midwife, "What is it?"
(7) The midwife said, "A girl."
(8) Anna said, "My soul exalts this day." And she put her baby to bed.
(9) After her days were completed, Anna cleansed her menstrual flow (10) and gave her breast to the child and gave her the name Mary.

Anyway I like this honest mention in James of Anna’s menstruation: “(9) After her days were completed, Anna cleansed her menstrual flow” For too long has this been viewed in a negative light as portrayed in “The Red Tent” By Anita (what was it? Bryant?). Mothering, birthing and feminine aspects like God the Mother have been marginalized for too long. It’s such a joy to see it being re-recognized, re-valued and honored anew. It’s especially gratifying to see it been brought forth from obscurity, deliberate concealment and marginalization, by WOMEN.

Like Dr. Rina Avner.
:smile:

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I have here a copy of Lost Books of the Bible, copyright 1979, a reprint of the 1929 edition. First one listed is the Gospel of the Birth of Mary, reputed to have been written by St. Matthew. It is followed immediately by The PROTEVANGELION; or, An Historical Account of the BIRTH of CHRIST, and the Perpetual VIRGIN MARY, his Mother, by JAMES the LESSER, Cousin and Brother of the Lord Jesus, chief Apostle and first Bishop of the Christians in Jerusalem.

It seems they didn't know one James from the other. Here he is called Jesus Brother and Cousin, as well as an apostle and a Bishop in the Church at Jerusalem. I cannot help but wonder what we'd be today if some of these Books were left in! The Gospel of Nicodemus, Letters of Herod and Pilate. The General Epistle of Barnabas. Hermas was quite prolific. But it wasn't until the 1900's actually, before women began to write. Virginia Woolf wrote about this in "A Room of Her Own." A woman needs to have creative space -- physically as well as psychically -- so her voice can find expression. And that can't happen when she is busy taking care of people, places and things night and day. Only recently have a few women been able to take their place in the annals of religious literature.

I've read novels surrounding Anna, Jesus' grandmother, but all that virgin stuff leaves me cold. The hymen is not the key to the kingdom. And the term "Mother of God" irks me. The Mother of God is God Herself! But the mother of Jesus was Mary, who was like every other Jewisha mama, nagging him night and day to make something of himself, fussing over him so that he didn't hurt himself, yammering for him to send postcards from his travels. {I jest} But, elevating Mary to sublime heights is one of the reasons I find Christianity so distasteful. She is just another woman. Granted, she had good stock, but she was no virgin, and she never did understand her son.

I like Mary fine, through the UB version, which reveals her as a woman, with all her faults and sentiment, but the idea of exalting her to levels of Deity is just plain ... irresponsible. I don't know. Forget I said such a thing. I just think the whole thing about "Mom-ism" is a bit far-fetched. Moms are just people. Women are just people. Men are just people. I'm not big on making saints out of ordinary people. Dr. Rina Avner is just a woman. But it seems she is making inroads, along the lines of those spoken of by Virginia Woolf. "There are and were many male dominated forces working against her, the least of which was a daunting lack of interest in the male community in bringing forth--" the female perspective. That's what's important here: the woman's perspective, not the woman herself.

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--" the female perspective. That's what's important here: the woman's perspective, not the woman herself.


Howdy Gerdean. "just a woman", always so humble Gerdean. Bless You.

I hear what you're saying and I could see that same thing even as I was reading and writing about it. But just the same there are things underlying being "just a woman" and "just Mothering" no big deal, that are important. Perhaps the problem isn't about lifting our sisters out of the perspective of drudgery that many have been confined too by the "overall" perspective of women but maybe the answer is lowering the men's inflated image of themselves and their power and control until we're ALL Just "men and women".

I'm not trying to push anyone higher (in recognition) than they should be. I'd just like to see women get the recognition and respect for their work that they justly deserve. :smile:

Peace Gerdean. God Bless You! :smile:

Thanks for that info on "The lost Books of the Bible". It was when I was looking for them that I the Urantia Book and I quit my search after that. Now as I find connections between them and TUB I'm finding interest in them again.

Thanks Gerdean. :smile:

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