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Are women treated different than men on the internet?
Yes 65%  65%  [ 11 ]
No 35%  35%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 17
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Gerdean what you say here is so True.
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... The entire section [Pg 368 #3 The Universe Son and Spirit] is critical to our discussion. It sets sets forth the ideal pattern for men and women and also reminds me of the movie with Mel Gibson entitled "What Women Want."

After this pledge of subordination by the Creative Mother Spirit, Michael of Nebadon nobly acknowledged his eternal dependence on his Spirit companion, constituting the Spirit coruler of his universe domains and requiring all their creatures to pledge themselves in loyalty to the Spirit as they had to the Son; and there issued and went forth the final "Proclamation of Equality." Though he was the sovereign of this local universe, the Son published to the worlds the fact of the Spirit's equality with him in all endowments of personality and attributes of divine character. And this becomes the transcendent pattern for the family organization and government of even the lowly creatures of the worlds of space. This is, in deed and in truth, the high ideal of the family and the human institution of voluntary marriage. (P.368 - §4 through P.369 - §1)

So it's like after HE becomes a Master Son, with full sovereignty over their universe, SHE gives HIM authority over HER and HE acknowledges HIS eternal dependence on HER. All of their creatures pledge themselves to BOTH of them. SHE is equal to HIM in all endowments of personality and attributes of divine character. I know, I am just repeating what the excerpt says, but it is so obviously critical and we so obviously miss it.

What a wonderful representation of deity interaction and co-operation we have between the Creator Son and the Mother Spirit. I just have to think that when this becomes more and more recognized on Earth the Feminine existence and value on earth can’t help but be advanced by OUR (humanity’s) recognition of the Divine Feminine Aspects of God and creation. When we see Women as the image of God that they are, How could we not respect them? I think you are absolutely right when you say, “and we so obviously miss it.”
I find this part very interesting. I missed this timing before.
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This event occurred in Nebadon at the time of Michael's return to Salvington after the Urantian bestowal. Never before this momentous occasion did the Universe Spirit acknowledge subordination to the Universe Son, and not until after this voluntary relinquishment of power and authority by the Spirit could it be truthfully proclaimed of the Son that "all power in heaven and on earth has been committed to his hand."

I realized the Mother subordinated to the Creator Son and the Son recognized Her Equality. BUT I didn’t realize this didn’t happen UNTIL AFTER JESUS’ DEATH and resurrection. NOW the pouring out of the Spirit of Truth (a Feminine Aspect of God as far as we are concerned here on earth) on all humanity makes even more sense in the dawning of the Equality of Women here on earth. 2000 years is certainly just a drop in the bucket in terms of eternity. The inevitability of the recognition and value of women and the Feminine Perspective is even made more plain to me now. BUT it terms of our Lifetimes, Why is it taking SO LONG. Just as our ideal of marriage is developing into a co-operative relationship of Equality representative of the procreative relationship of our Creator Son Father and Universe Mother Spirit, so to is the feminine existence on Earth (Women) being recognized as a model of the existence and function of our Creative Mother Spirit in the Universe. Notice in this excerpt:
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P.378 - §1 The Universe Mother Spirit, however, never leaves the local universe headquarters world. The spirit of the Creator Son may and does function independently of the personal presence of the Son, but not so with her personal spirit. The Holy Spirit of the Divine Minister would become nonfunctional if her personal presence should be removed from Salvington. Her spirit presence seems to be fixed on the universe headquarters world, and it is this very fact that enables the spirit of the Creator Son to function independently of the whereabouts of the Son. The Universe Mother Spirit acts as the universe focus and center of the Spirit of Truth as well as of her own personal influence, the Holy Spirit.

The Universe Mother is a HOME BODY, providing stablity through out the Universe. Just like mothers in our homes on Earth!Then the following:

Quote:
P.396 - §2 Though the Life Carriers belong to the family of divine sonship, they are a peculiar and distinct type of universe Sons, being the only group of intelligent life in a local universe in whose creation the rulers of a superuniverse participate. The Life Carriers are the offspring of three pre-existent personalities: the Creator Son, the Universe Mother Spirit, and, by designation, one of the three Ancients of Days presiding over the destinies of the superuniverse concerned. These Ancients of Days, who alone can decree the extinction of intelligent life, participate in the creation of the Life Carriers, who are intrusted with establishing physical life on the evolving worlds.

P.399 - §6 The vital spark--the mystery of life--is bestowed through the Life Carriers, not by them. They do indeed supervise such transactions, they formulate the life plasm itself, but it is the Universe Mother Spirit who supplies the essential factor of the living plasm. From the Creative Daughter of the Infinite Spirit comes that energy spark which enlivens the body and presages the mind.

The Universe Mother just as our Mother’s on Earth is the harbinger and curator of life, the very life of our human existence. Without Mother God nither male nor female could exist. And then the following on where we get our development:
Quote:
P.378 - §4 The seven adjutant mind-spirits are the creation of the Divine Minister of a local universe. These mind-spirits are similar in character but diverse in power, and all partake alike of the nature of the Universe Spirit, although they are hardly regarded as personalities apart from their Mother Creator. The seven adjutants have been given the following names: the spirit of wisdom, the spirit of worship, the spirit of counsel, the spirit of knowledge, the spirit of courage, the spirit of understanding, the spirit of intuition--of quick perception.

P.401 - §5 It is the presence of the seven adjutant mind-spirits on the primitive worlds that conditions the course of organic evolution; that explains why evolution is purposeful and not accidental. These adjutants represent that function of the mind ministry of the Infinite Spirit which is extended to the lower orders of intelligent life through the operations of a local universe Mother Spirit. The adjutants are the children of the Universe Mother Spirit and constitute her personal ministry to the material minds of the realms. Wherever and whenever such mind is manifest, these spirits are variously functioning.

So again Our Mother God just as Mothers on Earth are in charge of our development. And then next: In my initial post I made a speculative comment about a possible difference in perspective on a Male response and a Female’s response to a question Gerdean presented:

Quote:
Point Three: "I think over half of our tendency to get uppity with one another is gender based ... based on this very problem." This one I have to respond like a male and point out and focus on the quantitative question "How do we know it's half!" While to the women the most important part of this question might be the qualitative answer that a problem of conflict exists based on gender perspective.


Then TUB says this about the (feminine) adjutants of the Mother Spirit that may relate to that POINT about male and female prespective:

Quote:
P.402 - §0 the mind function of the adjutants on any world and in any given living organism of intellect status. These life-mind emplacements are perfect indicators of living mind function for the first five adjutants. But with regard to the sixth and seventh adjutant spirits--worship and wisdom--these central lodgments record only a qualitative function. The quantitative activity of the adjutant of worship and the adjutant of wisdom is registered in the immediate presence of the Divine Minister on Salvington, being a personal experience of the Universe Mother Spirit.

Now I find this correlation very interesting. Because women are known and mentioned in TUB to be the keepers of the Faith and Spirituality on Earth. And the reference to Sophia in many spiritual text is wisdom and it’s Feminine. This indicates to me that especially in the areas of worship and wisdom the co-operative experience with women may have tremendous potential for male development in the complimentary patterns that will evolve when male attempted dominance over women is exchanged for mutual co-operation. And then the following:
Quote:
P.404 - §1 Life Carriers can organize the material forms, or physical patterns, of living beings, but the Spirit provides the initial spark of life and bestows the endowment of mind. Even the living forms of experimental life which the Life Carriers organize on their Salvington worlds are always devoid of reproductive powers. When the life formulas and the vital patterns are correctly assembled and properly organized, the presence of a Life Carrier is sufficient to initiate life, but all such living organisms are lacking in two essential attributes--mind endowment and reproductive powers. Animal mind and human mind are gifts of the local universe Mother Spirit, functioning through the seven adjutant mind-spirits, while creature ability to reproduce is the specific and personal impartation of the Universe Spirit to the ancestral life plasm inaugurated by the Life Carriers.

Indicates to me that we must look to Our Universe Mother and Her Image on Earth, Women, for further development.

Sarah, Iris, Ray, Jo and others Thank You and Bless you all! Teach me about my Mother God. :smile:

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Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


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I am concerned, JoeR, that we are giving other readers "spiritual indigestion" and they will not have a chance to get a word in edgewise! But I, of course, want to respond to your Dagwood Sandwich of a post with its many points.

(1) Yes, her declaration of subordination and his proclamation of her equality occurs AFTER he has gone out from the castle into the forest and killed the dragon. THEN they live happily ever after!

Perhaps in our current situation, we are handicapped because the dragon still lives. Maybe that would account for why we are still so warlike and barbaric. {"Off with their heads!"} Or perhaps she is disgusted by his inability to get off the couch and has decided she will go kill the danged dragon herself and he is threatened by her lances. Or perhaps he thinks her incessant insistance that there is a dragon that needs slaying is only a product of her imagination. Or perhaps humans are still slaying their own dragons (the mark of the beast) and thus men and women will not be able to live amicably until they have sufficiently healed from some of the residue effects of a planet in quarantine. Whatever it is, we aren't there yet.

(2) Why is it taking so long? I would suggest it is because we have been retarded by the Lucifer Rebellion, the Adamic Default, and the isolation of planetary quarantine. Distrust and deceit is our legacy, and so we have men and women distrusting each other, cheating on each other, lying, grasping, beating their kids and further retarding our sorry plight. It is all the more important that we be born again, born of the spirit, so that we can break into the consciousness of consciousness and begin to work with the higher adjutants and the Spirit of Truth to lift up and out of the animal-like nature, particularly as it is so hostile and suspicious and defensive.

(3) Mother as a homebody. O:) Yes. I suggested that once in another thread on Truthbook and was firmly trounced by somebody who believed I was trivializing our revelation. And women in the throes of liberation will think such an attitude is unbearably chauvinistic, but I find comfort in it. I know that my mother has been able to pull my strings from all the way across the country, even when we were not corresponding, even when we were estranged from one another, because she taught me, she created me, she installed the buttons she pushed to get me to be who she wanted me to be and I am certain our Divine Minister is capable of the same thing.

"Tied to our mother's apron strings" is the phrase that comes to mind. And if our Mother is a loving, caring, nurturing, guiding light, then we are certainly going to be glad of her constant oversight, her vigil, so that we feel safe when we go out at night, when we go among strangers to teach and preach the gospel. For I do not in the least mean that just because the bride of Christ stays in Salvington, women are to stay in the kitchen. Jesus himself provided our Emancipation Proclamation, as we discussed earlier, even providing the pack mules and supplies to get the Women's Evangelical Corps ready to hit the road, to go about ministering to the bodies, minds and spirits of the people.

(4) Your comment
Quote:
This indicates to me that especially in the areas of worship and wisdom the co-operative experience with women may have tremendous potential for male development in the complimentary patterns that will evolve when male attempted dominance over women is exchanged for mutual co-operation.
reminds me of something I have often said, that women's liberation will lead to men's liberation which will lead to human liberation.

The hand that rocks the cradle fraternizes with destiny, but again, women must be born of the spirit; otherwise, its the same-o same-o. They must learn to upstep their ways and means. There is a big difference between suckling at Mother's breasts and oogling a woman's boobs. One nurtures the soul, the other feeds the animal appetites. Unless and until the spirit guides and directs us, how will we know the difference?

That's enough outta me for awhile. I am certain there are other voices in this choir.

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Gerdean O'Dell
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I am concerned, JoeR, that we are giving other readers "spiritual indigestion" and they will not have a chance to get a word in edgewise! But I, of course, want to respond to your Dagwood Sandwich of a post with its many points.

Thanks Gerdean. Of course I agree. I’m sure there are many hearts out there who have experiential stories to share. I think there’s so so much more detail of the feminine aspects of God to explore.

I know we need to discuss the “reasons” for the conflict:

Quote:
And the more we try to get them to see that we have a valid perspective, too, just different than theirs ... the more we are shoved aside, snuffed out, belittled, and ignored. Which only exascerbates the problem because ... well, because we are challenged then to overcome, and thus life becomes strident. And instead of men and women working together to inspire, intrigue, encourage and assist, we reflect a battleground.

Defining, Discussing and Defending and working towards understanding the male and female perspectives, I promised to get back to.

But I was hoping we could review the Feminine Aspects just a little more. I’m dying to hear more from my sisters on it. And I thank you so much Gerdean for your patience and tolerance and willingness to help me along in my search for answers in my Mother God’s Sacred Arena. In Her Spiritual Womb of Life I search for answers to my/our being. :smile: Within Her Sophia of Wisdom I search for my growth. :smile: And my Sisters hold the key to the objective of my search.

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I daresay "patience and tolerance and willingness" are divine qualities that are drawn out and can shine brightest in the parent/child relationship, particularly when we represent ourselves as good little boys and girls eager to impress our Mommy and Daddy. It's when the spiritual frame of reference is left out of the picture that we revert to acting like brats.

Yes, let's hush up now, so we can hear from others.

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Thanks Gerdean and Joer.

OK ladies - you have been invited to participate. Gents, thank you for your patience and letting the women have their discussion before we step in it by trying to fix something that doesn't need fixing. A similar discussion string will be started soon for the gents to discuss while the women practice patience and listen while we discuss. Later, a new thread for men and women will be started to see if we have learned to communicate with more effective use of our verbiage, our emotions, and our logic.

With that bit of moderator interference, I turn it back over to you ladies to discuss this subject and all relevant (in your mind) thread spin offs.

All the best, Ray


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To the initial question of "are women treated differently than men on the Internet"...I wouldn't expect anything else...or more...or less.

I have started to post several times, but each time I stopped myself. I couldn't understand why I was feeling so...irritated? angry? resentful? yep, resentful fit. Then needed to figure out where that resentment was coming from.

The dialogue between Gerdean and Joer has been nothing but positive, very encouraging to many (I would assume) so what was bugging me? Why would I get irritated at the very UB quotes that put a sigh of relief in my heart when I first read those pages? Finally, what I long believed in my heart was validated...in black and white.

So what do I do w/it?

A considerable amount of my rage has quieted to an anger, at times a slow simmer, but more often a resentful resignation b/c I can only chip away at the lies that exist on this planet in my own little (and it is tiny) corner of the world, as I encounter an opportunity. And then only if I'm calm enough to speak rationally and calmly enough to be understood...maybe not understood to the point that it will make a difference but at least my words will be understood...hopefully.

Maybe I'm just pessimistic from too many battles. Like I suggested to Fetish...pick your battles. By the time I gained more of an understanding (and more tolerance and patience) my energy was spent.

But the language bothers me, for two reasons. First of all this is above most people's ability to even begin to comprehend...I sure don't get it all. But I didn't need to understand every concept put forth; my heart understood before any words from a celestial being were written.

Here's the rub...
So much time, care, concern and painstaking searches went into finding and using just the right words so that we mere mortals would understand what they were trying to convey...right?
So why in the world did they skimp on the the key concept of addressing this to all people, both genders?!

I do not want to hear that tired reasoning that they were addressing it to the mentality of the times when it was written. Hell, the forward itself is enough to stump even the most highly intelligent person on the first reading! So scratch that...and what are we left with? Either these were a bunch of sexist celestials or they are closer to being like humanity on this planet then different/advanced. Or maybe Sadler dummied it down?

I said there were two reasons...the 2nd one is b/c of my own personal bias. I spent many years in a community of extremely intelligent women, w/ongoing formal education for all but a few, for as many years as they could physically handle it. I entered that community mainly b/c of what I heard them say they believed, and how they were "living out" that feminine aspect of God. In the end they were no different than any other patriarchal hierarchy...cloak and daggers behind every curtain. All that higher education got them was the ability to talk the talk...but it did not sink into their understanding and certainly never made it to their hearts. I watched in horror at the depth of their cruelty, which to me was much worse than any male could commit b/c they used their gender, and their feminine god, as a cover to elicit trust. It became fairly easy to spot those women who were subservient, and those that dominated/bullied the weaker ones.

So I am biased, and burned out. And as angry as I may sound at the moment, it really is more frustration than anything else. It will be thousands of years before there is any real concrete changes in men and women's hearts.


Gerdean wrote:
The hand that rocks the cradle fraternizes with destiny, but again, women must be born of the spirit; otherwise, its the same-o same-o. They must learn to upstep their ways and means. There is a big difference between suckling at Mother's breasts and oogling a woman's boobs. One nurtures the soul, the other feeds the animal appetites. Unless and until the spirit guides and directs us, how will we know the difference?


I submit that many are born of the spirit...but that can also be beaten out of a woman/child...physically, mentally and/or emotionally over time. There is enough fear in this day to day living experience for so many that they are going purely on the survival instinct. There is no time or energy left for froufrou language about a feminine spirit of God. They're lucky to have time for those foxhole prayers...and who can blame them.

For the majority of this human race, the only thing that may help (other then divine intervention) will be some behavior modification. Unfortunately, that usually only happens when someone is highly motivated and I don't foresee any grand scale motivation occurring. Of course there's always the possibility of being nuked...nope, then we will really be in the survival mode big time.

Our moment to moment living on this planet in the 21st century is barbaric, as much as it was when we learned about fire. The dangers have different faces but they kill just as easily. Many times the spirit, the hope that stirs our hearts toward that search for God, is killed long before it has started. I look into way too many dead eyes during the course of a day...from every walk of life...mainly female eyes. They are so tired. And afraid.

And again...why the hell couldn't the celetials "lower" themselves to actually address US.

Don't have a clue if this was on topic but
...I'm done.
Thank you very much.


Peace
....oh sweet peace please come soon.

Jo


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So far, Jo, peace is not as profitable as war ... and so guess what? We still have war.

Wouldn't you know I can't find it in the UB, but there is a quote that calls our attention to the direct correlary between war and the way women are treated. Do I get angry at men because they go to war? Do I get angry at women who raise their sons to be soldiers? You bet I do. Because that means one more generation of young men are being killed off, leaving the women to do the work and having slim pickins' when it comes to able helpmates. I get angry at BOTH SIDES. There are no enemies, only men (and sometimes now women) who are brutalizing one another.

When I read your heartfelt lament about the dead eyes of women, my heart bleeds. I know how it feels to be bone weary because of conflict ... and I am not even on the field! I understand, too, what you mean about women who act mean and nasty, as if that were the solution. Well, I suppose they act mean to ward off depression and despair, to stir up feelings such as we learned of in the movie "Stalag 17" that sometimes (especially in war) hate can be a great motivator.

I cannot make your pain go away, I can only say I understand it. I will also say this. When I was a child, the first grandchild in a big happy family, I was impressed with how my grandparents and my aunts and uncles would adjourn after dinner to their separate quarters. The men would go out on to the front porch to smoke, and then into the livingroom to listen to the news on the radio. The women went into the kitchen to clean up and then went into the big bedroom where they sprawled on the bed and sat on sundry chairs to engage in "women's talk" -- who needed an operation, who was pregnant, who died. And when I read Ray's post, all I could think of was how the sexes for generations have segregated themselves one from the other, as if they had nothing in common. But we have work to do, brothers and sisters. We have to learn to work together in order to effect light and life!

The battle of the sexes will never go away if we can't begin to be at peace with each other, and commingle with one another, and express ourselves as individuals instead of as one of the pack ... one of the club ... one of the gender. I see no merit to lining up as if to compete with one another, or going to separate rooms, or banding together in separate threads when cooperation and harmony are essential to learning how to live peaceably. It may be threatening for men to communicate with women, but it is threatening for women to have to take sides. So I would suggest that men not wait until the women have spent themselves. Feel free to express your own heart-felt response, along with JoeR. We are all adult here. We can talk.

I don't think the women in Sadler's time or in his group were liberated enough to have argued the point. They were like my grandparents.

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Hi Gerdean. A word on separation later.

First, a preamble from Paper 101 where it states that "Religion is so vital that it persists in the absense of learning."

Regarding separation, this is really an experiment in understanding and I think understanding is so vital that the attempt for it persists in the absense of learning.

I think I can learn "significants" by opening my ears and closing my fingertips for a short period of time; I know I already have. Please, do carry on with all sincerity. Men, I are one by example, are welcome to post of course but the attempt at understanding - by men as we observe communications among our complemental equals - is still young.

Please stay open to future "significants" learned as we men attempt to put our most sincere, serious, light-hearted, warm-hearted, reflective, long-term viewish foot forward for your edification.

The promised third string could be a fun roller coaster ride as we discuss Marriage and Family Life as augmented by the concept of The Limitations of Revelation.

Keep on truckin for awhile longer! Ray


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Fine by me, Ray. I am nothing if not cooperative.

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Thank You Jo. God Bless You. I think I hear what you are saying. You can't trust anyone.

Just remember Jo you can trust God. God will not forsake you even where it might appear that men and women will.

Trust in God Jo. As hard as it might seem, Trust in God. It'll be worth it. God bless and be with you Jo. And Fetish and all the women on this site whom it seems without exception have sensed or experienced or had negative experiences with some or many of their interactions with men. I pray for healing and I pray that God makes me into an instrument of that healing.

Amen/Awomen.

Here's a similar topic someone started on another site. I shared some TUB without referencing the source and looked for Biblical text to support the ideas.

The DIVINE FEMININE & Church Competency
http://ncrcafe.org/node/1291

Gerdean wrote:
Quote:
It may be threatening for men to communicate with women, but it is threatening for women to have to take sides. So I would suggest that men not wait until the women have spent themselves. Feel free to express your own heart-felt response, along with JoeR. We are all adult here. We can talk.


I like the idea of following the women's lead on this one Ray. So I'll go along with Gerdean because she has been so generous with her sharing and some of my sisters have responded to it and I'd like to see where it takes us. :-) Thanks Ray and all. God's Blessings be with us all.

Quote:
P.1471 - §1 And then, in bidding him farewell, Jesus said: "My brother, always remember that man has no rightful authority over woman unless the woman has willingly and voluntarily given him such authority. Your wife has engaged to go through life with you, to help you fight its battles, and to assume the far greater share of the burden of bearing and rearing your children; and in return for this special service it is only fair that she receive from you that special protection which man can give to woman as the partner who must carry, bear, and nurture the children. The loving care and consideration which a man is willing to bestow upon his wife and their children are the measure of that man's attainment of the higher levels of creative and spiritual self-consciousness. Do you not know that men and women are partners with God in that they co-operate to create beings who grow up to possess themselves of the potential of immortal souls? The Father in heaven treats the Spirit Mother of the children of the universe as one equal to himself. It is Godlike to share your life and all that relates thereto on equal terms with the mother partner who so fully shares with you that divine experience of reproducing yourselves in the lives of your children. If you can only love your children as God loves you, you will love and cherish your wife as the Father in heaven honors and exalts the Infinite Spirit, the mother of all the spirit children of a vast universe."

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um, Ray, that is BravA when addressing Lady Gerdean . . :razz:

Seriously, I've so much to share and have a reply brewing in my Word documents, but for now I wanted to post this article that appeared 2 minutes ago. Seems many are on the same page with our discussions as is SO often the case, in my experience . . .

More later.

susan



UNITED NATIONS - The U.N. secretary-general warned that violence against women has reached "hideous" levels in some countries trying to recover from conflict, and the U.N. Security Council demanded an end to impunity for rape and other sexual abuse.

The council expressed deep concern Tuesday that despite its repeated demands for an immediate end to violence against women caught in armed conflicts, "rape and other forms of sexual abuse, as well as all other forms of violence, ... remain pervasive, and in some situations have become systematic, and have reached appalling levels of atrocity."

"The council stresses the need to end impunity for such acts as part of a comprehensive approach to seeking peace, justice, truth and national reconciliation," it said.

The council statement was read at the end of a day-long open meeting on implementation of a resolution adopted in 2000 that called for the prosecution of crimes against women and increased protection of women and girls during war. It also demanded that women be included in decision-making positions at every level of peacemaking and peacebuilding.

Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said "violence against women has reached hideous and pandemic proportions in some societies attempting to recover from conflict." He did not name any countries.

"Together, all of us need to strengthen our collective and individual response to it," Ban said. "This is essential if we are to reverse the damage done by conflict, and to build more inclusive, accountable and cohesive socieites, underpinned by viable democratic institutions."

U.N. Undersecretary-General for Peacekeeping Jean-Marie Guehenno stressed the U.N.'s "zero tolerance" for sexual exploitation and abuse by its more than 80,000 peacekeeping troops.

"While rape is used as a weapon of war in situations such as ... Congo and Darfur, addressing this war crime requires going beyond political compromise, power and resource sharing agreements," he said. "Instead, combating rape and other forms of sexual violence calls for concerted, robust and ongoing action on the part of both national actors and also the international community at every level of engagement."

Assistant Secretary-General Rachel Mayanja, the secretary-general's special adviser on gender issues, urged all governments, parliaments, international organizations and civic groups to join a worldwide campaign on violence against women and girls that Ban will launch later this year.

"Impunity for perpetrators and insufficient response to the needs of survivors are morally reprehensible and unacceptable," she said. "Sexual violence in conflict, particularly rape, should be named for what it is: not a private act or the unfortunate misbehavior of a renegade soldier, but aggression, torture, war crime and genocide."


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"One of the most eventful of all the evening conferences at Amathus was the session having to do with the discussion of spiritual unity. James Zebedee had asked, "Master, how shall we learn to see alike and thereby enjoy more harmony among ourselves?" When Jesus heard this question, he was stirred within his spirit, so much so that he replied: "James, James, when did I teach you that you should all see alike? I have come into the world to proclaim spiritual liberty to the end that mortals may be empowered to live individual lives of originality and freedom before God. I do not desire that social harmony and fraternal peace shall be purchased by the sacrifice of free personality and spiritual originality. What I require of you, my apostles, is spirit unity--and that you can experience in the joy of your united dedication to the wholehearted doing of the will of my Father in heaven. You do not have to see alike or feel alike or even think alike in order spiritually to be alike. Spiritual unity is derived from the consciousness that each of you is indwelt, and increasingly dominated, by the spirit gift of the heavenly Father. Your apostolic harmony must grow out of the fact that the spirit hope of each of you is identical in origin, nature, and destiny.
"In this way you may experience a perfected unity of spirit purpose and spirit understanding growing out of the mutual consciousness of the identity of each of your indwelling Paradise spirits; and you may enjoy all of this profound spiritual unity in the very face of the utmost diversity of your individual attitudes of intellectual thinking, temperamental feeling, and social conduct. Your personalities may be refreshingly diverse and markedly different, while your spiritual natures and spirit fruits of divine worship and brotherly love may be so unified that all who behold your lives will of a surety take cognizance of this spirit identity and soul unity; they will recognize that you have been with me and have thereby learned, and acceptably, how to do the will of the Father in heaven. You can achieve the unity of the service of God even while you render such service in accordance with the technique of your own original endowments of mind, body, and soul.
"Your spirit unity implies two things, which always will be found to harmonize in the lives of individual believers: First, you are possessed with a common motive for life service; you all desire above everything to do the will of the Father in heaven. Second, you all have a common goal of existence; you all purpose to find the Father in heaven, thereby proving to the universe that you have become like him."1591:06-1592:01


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Sister Iris,

ROCK ON!!! I love that section and it was good to hear that today. It's also good to see you posting again. Take care sister and have a blessed day.

_________________
Love is the desire to do good to others...
laughter is the universal elixir, and we are chalk full of it!


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Joer wrote:
I think I hear what you are saying. You can't trust anyone.
Just remember Jo you can trust God. God will not forsake you even where it might appear that men and women will.


I'm sorry...how did you get that I don't trust God or anyone else from what I wrote? I know you're trying to understand, Joer...and I appreciate all of your efforts...but you have misunderstood.

Let me try going at this from a different angle:
If you were listening to a male describe his years of fighting in a war (just an example, you may have experienced it yourself) and the horrors he had seen, the way this has changed his perception of the world, of humanity or of God...maybe even that we need to find a solution other than killing each other...would you assume this man just had some bad experiences and let it go with, I think I hear what you are saying. You can't trust anyone. Just remember you can trust God. God will not forsake you even where it might appear that men and women will?


Or, b/c of his living experience would you listen and actually accept his viewpoint as, "Gee, he lived it so maybe there is some validity to what he's saying even if I can't actually understand what he experienced." What if there were hundreds of thousands of men who had shared that experience and they began to join together and say, out loud, in print, in every form of media available, that we must find another way to solve our problems. Would the world dismiss their voices as insignificant? Doubtful.

The response you gave is a prime example of what happens to a woman whenever she speaks truth as she sees it...and a male is listening with his ears. I realize that the knee-jerk reaction for most men is to "locate the problem and fix it". And if he can't then it's dismissed as irrelevant or just in her mind or she's just been hurt, etc. Or...it's dismissed for no other reason then it came from a female...which is more common.

I have come to believe that our dismissal is so ingrained that it's just an unconscious reflex.

The reality of many (too many) women's life is that they are living in a war zone and it is never-ending. There is no furlough, no R & R, no rotation out, no light at the end of the tunnel...just the ongoing battle of trying to survive while being negated. This isn't an exaggeration, this is a living reality and I am really tired of it being minimized.

My life is relatively calm...but I am one of the fortunate ones at this moment in time. Is it so difficult to even consider that what I am saying/writing is an actuality for the greater majority of women/girls living on this planet at this same moment in time?...to some degree on some level...and it's not getting any better b/c we/they are not heard and taken seriously.

I'm not angry at you, Joer...again, it's the frustration.

And Gerdean, as you know, the pain subsides when progress is at least attempted. I've read enough of your words to be assured that you do indeed bleed when you witness another's pain. But my pain...is for those millions who are trapped in that hell-hole. Even more...for those just being born into it.

I have hope that we will continue to evolve. But I'm also very human and I don't have the ability to remove myself from the reality of life NOW. That is part of being human...and is very much acceptable. Allow me to be such.

Peace
JO


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When I was a child, the first grandchild in a big happy family, I was impressed with how my grandparents and my aunts and uncles would adjourn after dinner to their separate quarters. The men would go out on to the front porch to smoke, and then into the livingroom to listen to the news on the radio. The women went into the kitchen to clean up and then went into the big bedroom where they sprawled on the bed and sat on sundry chairs to engage in "women's talk" -- who needed an operation, who was pregnant, who died. And when I read Ray's post, all I could think of was how the sexes for generations have segregated themselves one from the other, as if they had nothing in common. But we have work to do, brothers and sisters. We have to learn to work together in order to effect light and life!


I have lived that life in this day and age too, i am english and have no brothers, only sisters, so after getting involved with Islam, since my teens, i have segregated from all men, and this is in the UK too. Visitors segregate into seperate living rooms (we turn our dining rooms into a second living room) I have not had much contact with the men folk, since being a teenager. As a result they are quite alien to me, it's only since reaching out on the net, on these forums that i am talking to men again... and enjoying it too... I think you are right Gerdean to point this out, women and men for generations and in all cultures, have segregated in one way or another, we even have men only clubs in the west to this day. I think that is the way forward, for men and women to mix as much as possible... well we do anyway, but it's gonna take a long time to learn to understand each other... :?

I enjoyed what you wrote too Iris, suppose at the end of the day our souls are 'sex-less', which makes me wonder, how being a spirit soul in a woman's body and mind actually affects and conditions the soul, when compared to a male.... who are the more spiritual or successful... man or woman...

Love Sarah


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