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Are women treated different than men on the internet?
Yes 65%  65%  [ 11 ]
No 35%  35%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 17
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There is no doubt in my mind that women have received abuse at the hands of men. Quite often men are unaware of the abuse they are inflicting upon women. But it isn't a one way street. Women can be just as abusive of men.

Your right Randy everybody can abuse. On this thread I was focusing on what we might do to stop the man abuse. As you say: “There is no doubt in my mind that women have received abuse at the hands of men. Quite often men are unaware of the abuse they are inflicting upon women.” I figured if we listened to our women sisters here and tried to “see” man abuse from their perspective we might learn how train ourselves to be more aware of the abuse men are “unaware of the abuse they are inflicting upon women.”

So while your right that “ it isn't a one way street. Women can be just as abusive of men” the statistics show that it’s overwhelmingly apparent that the incidence of men abusing women and/or children is much greater perhaps by 20 to 1 than women abusing men.

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Each of us needs to say, "the buck stops here." It's time we made an attempt to treat each man, each woman, each child as if s/he were our Parent's own ... "Behold your brother. Behold your mother." And put some love in it.


As Gerdean and you Randy are saying, It’s got to stop all away around. What I’m trying to do on this thread is take one small step for mankind which would be a giant step in our respect for womankind and thus humankind in comparison with the slow improvements in female treatment from the past.

Going to Mexico right now. See you all Wednesday!

God's blessings and peace be with you ALL! :smile:

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Hello everyone. I am humbled by the depth and sincerity of the conversations I have witnessed here.
Joe,

I'm a new member and female. I was reviewing some of the recent posts about this most interesting and controversial subject. Something you said directly to Arc stirred up a personal memory.
My mother (now 85 years old) and I were driving home from church not too long ago and I was passionately expressing my determination to get a promotion that I was up for in my highly competitive sales career. Admittedly, I was venting some what to her about the actions that I would take if my immediate supervisor passed me over for this promotion that I felt I had more than earned.
To the point; my mother responded by advising me not to come on too strong, be happy with what I have, don't risk losing my job, etc.. The message I heard from her reminded me with remarkable clarity that women of her generation would have never thought of standing up to a manager for a promotion because most of them were stay at home moms and house wives. Then my next realization was, "Wow, look how far women have come in just one generation's time!" I am the bread winner of my house hold because of women who came before me. I do not have to depend on a man to support me because my options are limited. I can choose a mate based solely on love and a spiritual bond regardless of the "security" he can offer me.
So, in response to a question that you asked Arc about how far have women really come, I say we have made remarkably speedy progress in recent history. And since the world loves to watch what America is up to, we might possibly be making in-roads in small undetectable ways in other countries where human life is not so revered.
Peace,
Claire


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Hello Claire,

Yes, we do tend to be impatient, don't we -- patience is more a divine attribute than a normal human virtue; it's one of the attributes of character requiring the expenditure of effort to acquire. One quote from the UB is "You should realize that there is a great reward of personal satisfaction in being first just, next fair, then patient, then kind." That's a great sequence of attitude progression to be kept in mind. The word patience is often coupled with mercy. The Lucifer rebellion, Caligastia default, and the default of Adam and Eve are directly attributable to lack of patience. One of Jesus' outstanding qualities noted by others was his patience.

We're a "now" generation -- this is a recent acquirement in human history. In the recital of the million years of human development given in The Urantia Book there are hundreds of thousands of years where nothing of real import transpired -- babies were born, grew up, had babies of their own, died, on and on. In the relatively short span in historical terms of just 1000 years approximately 50 generations are born and die -- in conversation that would be the word "grandmother" with 50 "great's" preceding it. Most of humanity that has ever lived on earth has never seen change, had a new idea, new fashion, tasted something new in their diet, met new people from outside their tribe or village, had new words introduced into their vocabulary, read a book and I think much of this would be true still without the advent of America onto the historical scene. The injection of change into society and the world continues at an exponential rate.

We live in an evolving universe. Although the periods of inertia in human development are lengthy from our point of view they're inconsequential overall -- change will occur naturally whether we're patient or impatient and it would seem that it's best if we each work to make patience an attribute of our own and accept change as it comes rather than to try to force it.

Larry


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It seems to me merely accepting change as it comes is the mark of mediocrity not patience. Mediocrity is all about keeping the status quo. The status quo is all about inertia. Inertia prevents evolution. It also seems to me that quite often women demonstrate more patience than men. But I agree with Claire when she says: "Wow, look how far women have come in just one generation's time!" She gives examples of this change. I would like to cite the Women's Suffrage Movement of the late 19th early 20th century which involved several generations of women patiently working to create social and political change. It might be said these women actively promoted this social and political change which resulted in their right to vote in 1920. It also seems that men strongly resisted this change due to inertia. In this one period of human development, great evolution took place---at least in this little corner of the universe.

Randy

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Howdy, folks.

Hey, Joe!

I didn't forget about you. Just been busy. You asked some questions. Here are some answers.

To begin with, I don't consider myself to be writing from a male perspective. It's true I'm a man, and by definition everything I say is a male perspective. But I am not here to defend men. Rather, it is my ambition to represent the perspective of enlightened reason based on the life and teachings of Jesus. Don't get me wrong. I don't claim to be especially enlightened or especially reasonable. But this is my aspiration. Especially in my Truthbook posts.

Joe, my friend, you've put a lot on my plate, and as is my practice, I have mulled it over for a while. And while each question you ask is topic in itself, I'll do my best to address them all. Forgive me if it gets long.

Joe:
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Just off the top of your head do you think more women in the Bible are recognized for their undying faith and steadfast struggle to preserve God’s precepts and hold them in the minds of God’s people or more men?


Well, it'll have to be off the top of my head, because I'm for sure not a biblical scholar. Just guessing, I'd say men, because, for the most part, men wrote it. But I wouldn't be in the least surprised to find out it was women, as that may well have been the truth, and the truth does often end up in the Bible.

Joe:
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Then your mind might break out of it’s Good Old USA perspective and remember about how in the Middle East, Much of Central and South America, Much of Africa, China and many other countries, women may not be treated much better than they were in biblical times.

I'm more than a little curious about how you can presume to know what going on in my mind. I'll just say you're way off base, and leave it at that.

Joe:
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Do you think women have righted the imbalance of respect and consideration due women in a short 80 years or so in maybe a sixth of the world's population?


I'm sorry, Joe, but I couldn't quite figure this one out. But I'll give it a shot anyway. No, the imbalance not been universally righted, and is a work still in progress. But in the last 80 years great progress has been made locally. And global events all begin as local events. Our new friend Claire and Larry have most eloquently expressed the remainder of my views on the subject.

Joe:
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I mean it would seem logical to me that it may take a thousand years before they get the recognition and respect that they deserve. Wouldn’t you think that might be true Arc?

You might be right about this Joe. I never said otherwise. But who's to say it couldn't happen in 100 years? Or fifty? Why not twenty?

Joe:
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BUT what about the reality of the situation? In the first world war less than 10% or 15% of the deaths attributable to war were women and children. Now in less than a hundred years. The percentage has risen to around 80% civilian deaths and 70% to 80% of those are women children and aged people. So for instance in Iraq your looking at almost 60% of all casualties, civilian and combatants combined are civilian women, children and the aged.


The first world war was the first world war fought with modern technological weapons. High explosives, machine guns, poison gas, aircraft, tanks, motorized supply and transport. Out of ignorance, the generals began the war with pretechnological tactics. Slaughter ensued. The slaughter of soldiers. Up to that time, wars were fought by armies who for the most part met in open fields. It made for better maneuvering and avoided the risk of damaging the valuable economic assets usually located in the cities. After all, possession of these assets is what the wars were usually fought over. The populations of cities are an economic asset as well. The idea was, defeat their army in the field, then go to town and enjoy the profits from the conquest. Their destruction didn't make any sense.

The new technologies changed all that. And the fact that wars are now presumed to be ideological. At least this is the pretense that is used to justify the destruction of everyone and everything in sight. I could go on an on, and I already have. Suffice it to say, for a variety of reasons, modern warfare has moved from the open country fields into the cities. Where women, children, and the aged live and take refuge. And the destructiveness of modern warfare techniques pays little heed to man, woman, or child. And today, the willingness of those who wage guerrilla warfare to hide behind the skirts of their women and the bodies of their children makes it all the worse. It is tragic an deplorable. An unfortunate fact associated with technological warfare in our modern world. Not a justification by any means. Just a response. I'm still not sure what your point is, but I will have more to say about this later.

Joe:
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So the ideal you state while true doesn’t really take in consideration the perspective and deadly threat as well as the merely violent threat that woman face in men.


Your implication that the majority of women live in constant fear of death and violence is an extraordinary claim. I don’t believe it is true. Neither my own experience nor my investigations beyond offer evidence in support of your claim. I can't find a source that backs up your claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. What is the basis of your claim? A book you read? A show you saw?

There is no doubt that evil is at large in the world. There is no doubt that something tragic is happening somewhere in the world at every moment. I know this to be the case, and it wrenches my gut to contemplate it. It is enough to make the very stones weep.

Joe, you have offered us some statistics. I don't know if they came from a reliable source, but it doesn't matter. Here are some statistics that I have perfect confidence in. The only statistics that matter to me. 100 per cent of war casualties are children of God. 100 per cent of the victims of crime are children of God. 100 per cent of the repressed and persecuted are children of God. And these figures are more than enough to guarantee that I am charged with the desire to see these wrongs righted. Which raises the next question, what do I do?

More on that and "Respect" in Part Two.

Sorry this is so long, and is a little late. My good friend Joe has asked some good questions that deserve answers. But I've got a lot of irons in the fire, and I write slowly. I'll try and keep up better.:smile:

Peace,
Arc

End of Part One


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Men don't seem reluctant to do and acquire what is in their interests; but man does not see women's liberation as being in his interest. Thus, while it may be perceived that it is "inertia" that stills the hand that rocks the cradle and fraternizes with destiny, from a woman's perspective it is "control." Similar to the dog that keeps getting under your feet or the cat that sits on your computer mouse, they want your undivided attention at best, and at the least they do not want their creature comforts (status quo) inconvenienced.

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Hi Randy,

You said:
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It also seems to me that quite often women demonstrate more patience than men.


"Knowing the tendency of woman to look upon immediate results rather than to plan farsightedly for more remote effects, the Melchizedeks, before departing, had especially enjoined Eve as to the peculiar dangers besetting their isolated position on the planet and had in particular warned her never to stray from the side of her mate, that is, to attempt no personal or secret methods of furthering their mutual undertakings." 840:06

iris


Last edited by Bonita on Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:45 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Please don't tell me this is going to deteriorate into it was all Eve's fault.

Ok...that's all I needed to say.
:roll:

Jo


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Who is blaming Eve? Blame the Melchizedeks for making the observation that women tend to want immediate results. Or blame God for making women that way. Why does there need to be blame at all? Isn't that fallout from the guilt cult? Haven't we matured beyond that? I wish.

Jo, I'm being lighthearted about this, not confrontational in case you can't tell due to the one-dimensional nature of this medium.

iris


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As was I....

Jo


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oh


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Howdy folks.

This is Part Two of my reply to my friend Joe.

Joe has implied that I need to show more respect to women. I think. And I'm guessing that it might have something to do with my exchange with my esteemed friend Gerdean.

With regards to this, yes, Gerdean has welcomed me into her home and showed me the most gracious of hospitality. We had a most fruitful exchange of ideas. We didn't agree on everything, nor did we expect to. And it was great. This wonderful evening only reinforced the high opinion of her that I had already developed from reading her posts on Truthbook. I can assure you she has my utmost respect.

When it comes to showing that respect, it begins with treating her as an equal. I could show her no more disrespect than to address her as though she were too fragile to entertain a divergent point of view without falling to pieces.

Often on Truthbook, I have asked Gerdean tough questions when I was curious about the feminine perspective. I have known for a long time she won't pull any punches. And, just like in this last exchange, she has always delivered the goods. As usual, I found her responses to be very revealing. Thanks again for your insights, Gerdean.

And the same respect I owe Gerdean, I owe to all women (everybody, really). I haven't seen the need to behave towards them as though they required special handling. As though they were incapable of following a coherent argument. Why should I? Most of them are smarter than me anyway.

Anyway, that's the end of Part Two.

I'm almost caught up to the rest of you guys.

Peace,
Arc


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(((((((((((Arc/Gerdean))))))))))))

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Claire
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Hello everyone. I am humbled by the depth and sincerity of the conversations I have witnessed here.


Claire God Bless you! And Welcome to Truthbook! It's such a blessing to hear from you. Thank YOU for taking the time share with us. You have a great prespective on this subject I hope you share some more.

May the Peace of God in all persons be with you! :smile:

Larry
Quote:
We live in an evolving universe. Although the periods of inertia in human development are lengthy from our point of view they're inconsequential overall -- change will occur naturally whether we're patient or impatient and it would seem that it's best if we each work to make patience an attribute of our own and accept change as it comes rather than to try to force it.


Patience is a virture. Thank You Larry.

Arc
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Rather, it is my ambition to represent the perspective of enlightened reason based on the life and teachings of Jesus.


Exactly Arc, this is why I try ask you challenging questions. Because I believe in your ability to come up with good answers as do so many here.

On the way back from Mexico I was having a great talk with my Compadre. I baptized my youngest sister's and his only son. They both had children from other marriages. In Spanish culture your chosen godfather and godmother for your child are referred to as Compadre and Comadre. (Co-Father and Co-Mother) With no radio playing and a long drive we had an excellent getting-to-know-each-other-better conversation.

One thing that I reflected on that was kind of a clearer reflection of learning spiritual lessons, was that I realized once a I finally learned a lesson like, in this case Jesus’ teaching of catching a robber in your house and giving him (or her) your coat too, one that I had struggled with for 25 years or so before I got it, you don’t lose it. At least not until you find a better understanding in the future. It’s like once you know a “truth” at a higher level of understanding, you can’t un-know it. Once you get it, you get it!

And it’s precisely because you and so many here Arc, who strive to “represent the perspective of enlightened reason” That I keep coming back to listen (read and take in) to your answers. I know when You show me the better understanding and I get it, it will be a gift that can’t be taken from me. Changed by a better understanding in the unknown future, yes. But forget it, No. Thank You all for that gift.
Joer wrote:
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Then your mind might

Arc wrote:
Quote:
I'm more than a little curious about how you can presume to know what going on in my mind. I'll just say you're way off base, and leave it at that.


Well you're right on this one ARC. I said might Arc, because it was more of a senario that anyone might playout rather than you secifically. I just used your name incidentally because I was responding to your post. Sorry Arc. I meant "someone might" or "anyone might" think that. :smile:

Arc wrote;
Quote:
And the destructiveness of modern warfare techniques pays little heed to man, woman, or child. And today, the willingness of those who wage guerrilla warfare to hide behind the skirts of their women and the bodies of their children makes it all the worse. It is tragic an deplorable. An unfortunate fact associated with technological warfare in our modern world. Not a justification by any means. Just a response. I'm still not sure what your point is, but I will have more to say about this later.

Your right Arc. ”Not a justification by any means”. You can’t justify, You can’t justify killing people. But in reality you can change things or work toward that change to avoid killing. As weather that reduction comes in the form of men, women, aged or children any reduction is a good reduction. And since there’s a historical precedent of protecting women and children. Perhaps that would be a good place to start making changes in the stopping of indiscriminate war deaths.
Quote:
And these figures are more than enough to guarantee that I am charged with the desire to see these wrongs righted. Which raises the next question, what do I do?


Exactly, What can we do? Thank You Arc.

Arc wrote:
Quote:
Joe has implied that I need to show more respect to women. I think. And I'm guessing that it might have something to do with my exchange with my esteemed friend Gerdean.


I’m not sure what I said about you and Gerdean, But I’m glad you and Gerdean have shared what you have about your relationship with each other. Obviously men and women have been getting along for hundreds of thousands of years. You and Gerdean have a relationship of mutual admiration and respect. I think many of us here have that and I take Claire’s comments about what we’ve shared here as a compliment and a testimony to that mutual respect.

I've found where I used to squirm and avoid conflict I now seem enjoy the difficult questions as much or even more than the easy ones. I don’t seem to feel threatened any more by difficult situations I actually believe that there may be a reason that I happen to be there when one arises. That’s new in my life. Maybe only in the last ten years or so and it has accompanied what I see as my increased spiritually.

The consequences in worldly relationships don’t seem as important as the spiritual lessons imparted. I feel like TUB is the thing most responsible for this slowly evolving long term change in my being. I think that in hindsight I was probably a male with a very poor respect for my human companions of the opposite gender. And I didn’t think at the time that I was being disrespectful. I thought they were being inconsiderate of my maleness and had no right to be like that.

I know we get defensive in this process and take things that are presented by one another as possible a person response to who we are. Arc I believe you are a true gentleman at least from what I’ve know of you here. In my life I’ve been far from being a gentleman. I apologize to all those people known and unknown whom I’ve offended in my life with or without intending to. Many of whom were women. So not in defense Arc but as a reiteration of the high esteem I hold you in here’s a little excerpt from that post people have seen me saying something about you in relation to your lack of respect of women and your exchange with Gerdean.

Joer wrote:
Quote:
we are trying to recognize that imbalance and find the mutual understanding as Male and Female humans to see what is needed to bring the world into balance so they can be as egalitarian as you are Arc in their actions, views and respect for woman as “human beings as they do for men.
And here’s the challenging part ARC. I’m not saying YOU in particular need to respect and understand women more. I’m saying YOU and I and MEN IN GENERAL REALLY DO NEED TO LISTEN TO AND CHANGE OUR PRESPECTIVE OF who women REALLY ARE and WHAT the are REALLY ABOUT.

And I’m saying it here because I believe WE, THE MEN AT THIS SITE have a better opportunity than MOST to achieve this because those same qualities of Gerdean that you mention, “I have asked Gerdean tough questions when I was curious about the feminine perspective. I have known for a long time she won't pull any punches. And, just like in this last exchange, she has always delivered the goods. As usual, I found her responses to be very revealing.”, are shared by MOST if not ALL of the wonderful tolerant women on this site. And I don’t see TUB as having just a little to do with this unique understanding THAT SHOULD AS SOON AS POSSIBLE become common knowledge. :smile:

Peace be with you All! :smile:


[/b]

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Hey Joer...welcome back!
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And I didn’t think at the time that I was being disrespectful. I thought they were being inconsiderate of my maleness and had no right to be like that.



That is exactly how I have felt. There have been numerous occasions when I almost reached out and popped the idiot up side the head and asked..."Do you not realize who you are speaking to?!"

Oh me...maybe we aren't so very different after all...at least in our reactions?

Jo


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