An open forum for general discussions of a spiritual nature where guests and readers entertain the teachings of The Urantia Book.
Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:55 am +0000
Har, har, har. Yea, now we be gettin' to the crux o' the matter at hand. Avast ye traveler! Be ye male or be ye female? Speak up matey! Or does the parrot have yer tongue?
Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:06 am +0000
Back in the day, I used to study phil books 8 hrs a day in a serious effort to Know the Truth.
I was motivated by 2 things:
(1) a serious and sustained desire to Know the Truth
(2) a desire for others to sit at my feet, and ASK ASK from the
Great One - me.
Most Posters here are fighting the good fight to Know More Truth, to Grow, to Be of Service. A valiant and noble deed. Those who Know All Truth? are not posting...... The glorious UB is a tremendous Revelation for aiding us all as we move forward.
p.s. why did I desire that Others (brothers and sisters and all) ASK ASK from me?? Ego........ego..........ego........not a pretty picture. Fortunately Life slammed me to the ground a few times. Now I respect all who seek, those who non-seek out of temporary contentment. I even respect boys and girls like Trav. - but I do not dig wasteful games.
Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:39 am +0000
Those who Know All Truth?
Mortal man is incapable of "Knowing All Truth". The Ultimate Truth is indecipherable by the human mind and can only be divulged to the spirit, which needs to be translated by a conditioned mind that often misinterprets its meaning, hence we have various religions and beliefs.
Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:49 am +0000
............well said !
Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:02 pm +0000
As for sitting around somebody's feet, listening for a new recital of truth, I am reminded of the story of the long-handled spoon. You remember how that goes, don't you?
We are shown two pictures. In one, the people are sitting around in a circle, all holding long-handled spoons. There is a huge bowl of savory stew in the middle of the circle, yet they are all starving to death.
In the second picture, the people are sitting around in a circle, all holding the long-handed spoons, with the huge bown of savory stew in the middle of the circle, but in this picture, they are all robust and happy.
Why? In the first picture they are trying to feed themselves; in the second picture, they are feeding each other. In other words, to illustrate my point for this thread, they are taking turns sitting around somebody's feet, listening for a new recital of truth.
We all have truth, and we all want to be heard. Those who have something to offer will nourish with their words; those who seek only to feed their ego will not survive. If Traveler is not nourishing our growth, we are free to ignore him and reject his offering; and he can wipe the dust from his feet as he leaves Truthbook. But if we find his message worthy, if he stimulates thought that will nurture our soul, we can feed him some of our own spiritual food, and in that way, we might all become robust and happy. As long as we are not being poisoned, what does it matter how the food is delivered?
Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:19 pm +0000
My dear Gerdean,
You enquired about LOVE on another subject. You just gave somewhat of an answer - by expressing LOVE.
Yes, you are GUILTY ! of expressing LOVE.......... love from FB2
Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:59 pm +0000
The perception of Death on Urantia is the same as on all first level realities. Within this realm cause, effect, and finality are the gods that are worshiped thus the rules of this reality apply. If men did not die on this planet, but rather visibly ascended, the reality would be different, the experience of mortality would be corrupted, and the divinely instituted evolution of thought would have no foundation. The lack of base reality and volition within that reality is the underlying cause of the Lucifer rebellion.
Within the mortal mind there exist two personalities, that which acknowledges God (the spiritual) and that which does not (the material). The Thought Adjuster is always attached to the former. Input to the mind, whether experiential or spiritual must be accepted by one or both of these personalities in order to be assimilated and remembered. The Thought Adjuster (more reconciler than adjuster) continually works at reconciling the perceived material and experiential with the spiritual. Everything that is stored and remembered within the spiritual personality is eternal, and everything that is stored and remembered within the material personality, the unreal, ceases to exist.
Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:32 pm +0000
Yes, FB2, and it is this of which I would like to know much more.
Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:11 am +0000
P613:1, 54:0.1 Evolutionary man finds it difficult fully to comprehend the significance and to grasp the meanings of evil, error, sin, and iniquity. Man is slow to perceive that contrastive perfection and imperfection produce potential evil; that conflicting truth and falsehood create confusing error; that the divine endowment of freewill choice eventuates in the divergent realms of sin and righteousness; that the persistent pursuit of divinity leads to the kingdom of God as contrasted with its continuous rejection, which leads to the domains of iniquity.
Evolutionary man finds it difficult to understand the significance and to grasp the meaning of evil, error, sin, and iniquity. Man is slow to see that the process of differentiating between perfection and imperfection produces the potential for evil; also, that conflicting truth with falsehood creates confusing error; and that the divine endowment of free will judgment creates the opposing realms of sin and righteousness; that the persistent pursuit of divine recognition leads to the kingdom of God and by contrast the continuous rejection, leads to the domain of iniquity.
P613:2, 54:0.2 The Gods neither create evil nor permit sin and rebellion. Potential evil is time-existent in a universe embracing differential levels of perfection meanings and values. Sin is potential in all realms where imperfect beings are endowed with the ability to choose between good and evil. The very conflicting presence of truth and untruth, fact and falsehood, constitutes the potentiality of error. The deliberate choice of evil constitutes sin; the willful rejection of truth is error; the persistent pursuit of sin and error is iniquity.
***the Gods neither create evil nor permit sin or rebellion***. The possibility of evil exists only in time based realities, in universal levels which embrace differing levels of the meaning of perfection and value. Sin is potential in all realms where imperfect beings are endowed with the ability to judge between good and evil. The conflicting presence of truth and untruth, fact and falsehood, constitutes the possibility of error. To knowingly judge good to be evil is sin; the willful rejection of truth is error; the persistent pursuit of sin and error is iniquity.
line 61: The moral will creatures of the evolutionary worlds are always bothered with the unthinking question as to why the all-wise Creators permit evil and sin. They fail to comprehend that both are inevitable if the creature is to be truly free. The free will of evolving man or exquisite angel is not a mere philosophic concept, a symbolic ideal. Man's ability to (judge) good or evil is a universe reality. This liberty to choose for oneself is an endowment of the Supreme Rulers, and they will not permit any being or group of beings to deprive a single personality in the wide universe of this divinely bestowed liberty--not even to satisfy such misguided and ignorant beings in the enjoyment of this misnamed personal liberty.
P1260:2, 115:1.1 Partial, incomplete, and evolving intellects would be helpless in the master universe, would be unable to form the first rational thought pattern, were it not for the innate ability of all minds, high or low, to form a (framework) in which to think. If the mind cannot fathom conclusions, if it cannot penetrate to true origins, then will such a mind unfailingly (assume) conclusions and invent origins in order that it may have a means of logical thought within the frame of these mind-created (conclusions). And while such (frameworks) for creature thought are indispensable to rational intellectual operations, they are, without exception, erroneous (FALSE) to a greater or lesser degree.
P1260:3, 115:1.2 Conceptual frames are only relatively true (true as relates to the observer); they are serviceable scaffolding which must eventually give way before the expansions of enlarging cosmic comprehension. The understandings of truth, beauty, and goodness, morality, ethics, duty, love, divinity, origin, existence, purpose, destiny, time, space, even Deity, are also only relatively true (true as relates to the observer). God is much, much more than a Father, but currently the Father is man's highest concept of God; but regardless of this, the Father-Son portrayal of Creator-creature relationship will be augmented by those supermortal conceptions of Deity which will be attained in Orvonton, in Havona, and on Paradise. Man may think in a mortal universe frame, but that does not mean that he cannot enter other higher frames within which thought can take place.
Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:41 am +0000
Traveler you wrote:
“Everything that is stored and remembered within the spiritual personality is eternal, and everything that is stored and remembered within the material personality, the unreal, ceases to exist.”
It seems a little misleading if you believe:
The mortal-mind transcripts and the active creature-memory patterns as transformed from the material levels to the spiritual
It would seem some of the material aspects of the mortals personality is Transformed to the spiritual
and thus not “unreal, ceasing to exist”
What do you say about that? Can you clarify your statement a little bit?
You also write:
The lack of base reality and volition within that reality is the underlying cause of the Lucifer rebellion.
I agree with the volition (Free Will) part as an underlying cause of the Lucifer rebellion. But I’m not so sure about “The lack of base reality”
and the idea that if humankind “rather visibly ascended, the reality would be different, the experience of mortality would be corrupted, and the divinely instituted evolution of thought would have no foundation.”
Actually when you posted
“Conceptual frames are only relatively true (true as relates to the observer); they are serviceable scaffolding which must eventually give way before the expansions of enlarging cosmic comprehension. The understandings of truth, beauty, and goodness, morality, ethics, duty, love, divinity, origin, existence, purpose, destiny, time, space, even Deity, are also only relatively true (true as relates to the observer).” And “Man may think in a mortal universe frame, but that does not mean that he cannot enter other higher frames within which thought can take place.”
If you take that to be true it actually shows how if humankind actually “rather visibly ascended,”,
mankind, through the concept of conceptual frames and higher frames of understanding, WOULD have a “base reality” of understanding changing truth through higher levels of understanding and thus “the divinely instituted evolution of thought [b]WOULD HAVE A FOUNDATION
Does that makes sense to you traveler? Show me my error of understanding please if you see it. Thank You!
As far as you other post on Evil and Sin in relation to God, I concur and agree wholeheartedly.
May God Blessings remain with you forever.
Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:38 am +0000
[Traveler's post deleted by admin.
Traveler, please refer to the first post on page 4 of the "Traveler Speaks" discussion, which to begin with in all honesty should have been named "Traveler Don't Speak". There you were given an additional posting opportunity but with this post you've apparently chosen to continue not to communicate; posts you submit from this point on will be removed. Sorry, but you have to learn to play by the rules in order to play here.]
Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:24 am +0000
You stand on the dock with ticket in hand watching the boat sail away.
Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:59 am +0000
Dear Brothers & Sisters
Here Is A Free Travel Guide & Ticket Into the Mind , Thots & Errors of Much Cosmic Spiritual Untruths in thee Travelers , MIND ...
Of Kurt Kawohl = Thee Traveler .
To Understand Our Brother Traveler , IT was This Morning to Me, Given the Mortal Thot , to read the Episodes of the Brother Traveler , On His Web Site Link , ... Well I Started Readin it , Some is Truth , & Some is Not , ... but a Error /s of His own Mortal Thots .
So to Try & Understand Brother Traveler Read His houghts , Beliefs , And Opinions , . Some Is Truth Some is in Grave Spiritual Error . I Do not Feel that Bro Traveler , is Here Just because of His Book or Website . At Least I hope not . Many of his thoughts are similar , in some ways regarding religions etc , as the Urantia Papers , ... Yet , There is Some Major Error in His Thoughts , Beliefs & Opinions , About Such things as , The Souls Survival The Neg & Positive ~ Karma Law of Karma
Also Simply Said , that Jesus , was Just only One of Many Enlightend Men . .. Not the Only Way . That Kant is the Man Cant = Kant
That '' ONLY'' Righteous SOULS WILL SURVIVE DEATH > That All is Logic & Reason . That the 4th Demension is ... for " Deserveing Spirits''. That there are 10 levels of Conciousness . WEll , ... Thats only a Small bit of what I have read About Our Brother thee Traveler .
HIS NAME IS KURT KAWOHL
His Said , ~ NEW ~ Thots are from his Spiritual Awakening after 9/11 His Thing Is ~ Transcendentalism . So Brothers & Sisters , "" IF " Brother Traveler You would CARE To DISCUSS YOUR THOTS On these Spiritual Untruths in Error , Above . WE ALL Could Do this IF YOU Wish , ... IF NOT , THEN ... Beleive in Error or we can speak of Truth ... Lead by Jesus Christ Michaels Gift to All HIS Spirit of Truth ... Which will allways show US ... ''THEE Way'' WEll thats my story & I"M Sticken to It .
Brother Traveler ~ Speak NOW ~ Or Forever Hold your Peace . Amen ~ So it Is , So it may be . I'll Be Back .
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Culture/Showc ... novel.html
The unique personality which is the real life in me, I can not gain unless I search for the real life, the spiritual quality, in others. I am myself spiritually dead unless I reach out to the fine quality dormant in others. For it is only with the god enthroned in the innermost shrine of the other, that the god hidden in me, will consent to appear.
The Ethical Philosophy of Life
Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:46 am +0000
[Post by Traveler removed by admin]
Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:12 am +0000
This is a silly game you play Traveler.
You've got some cheek to make these comments about this site and the posters who have welcomed you again and again only to be answered with your enigmatic charade.
You fancy yourself to be of another world then this? Prove it.
Do you have anything to teach here Traveler, or is it just this game of cat and mouse that gives you some thrill. Get real my friend. No one here fears you or the unknown, although I'm sure you wish we did.
Allow me to further embarrass myself...
Traveler.. are you human origin and if so then of what gender?
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