Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:12 pm +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:08 am +0000
Posts: 2170
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
In spite of error by backwards slow to advance mortals, Tookie by the grace of God's ascendency Plan is advanced forward while mortals who cheered his apparent execution stay behind on their planet of orgin for further training. Spiritual beings aware of the paradox chuckle! :P
12/13/05 pst UrantiaTime - Hovana News

P.558 - §2 In traversing the ascending scale of living existence from mortal man to the Deity embrace, you actually live the very life of every possible phase and stage of perfected creature existence within the limits of the present universe age. From mortal man to Paradise finaliter embraces all that now can be--encompasses everything presently possible to the living orders of intelligent, perfected finite creature beings. If the future destiny of the Paradise finaliters is service in new universes now in the making, it is assured that in this new and future creation there will be no created orders of experiential beings whose lives will be wholly different from those which mortal finaliters have lived on some world as a part of their ascending training, as one of the stages of their agelong progress from animal to angel and from angel to spirit and from spirit to God.

I'd to apologize for being sarcastic and condescending in this Tookie Post to anyone seeing his death as Justice served. You have every right to that belief and you're support positions were valid. I just want you to know I subscribed to the same positions for many years and even know more areas in the UB that support what you have said. Even though my position has changed and I was saddened and angered by the fact that we choose justice over mercy, I had no right to judge you and RAZZ you with that email.

And I apologize those above us for itimating that any celetial being might laugh at you. I honestly believe they would never do that. And this is my cofession to fetish. For acting "Holier than thou" in this post fetish I ask your forgivess! :smile:
God Bless and guide us all.

_________________
Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:47 pm +0000
Posts: 550
Location: South Carolina
Thanks for the apology. I will accept it, and leave you to your own cheering on for Tookie. I thank God that everyone has a second, third, forth etc... chance in his love and mercy, but that almost made me puke.

I believe Justice, was served. And I am glad that 'tookie' :| Had a chance in life to get his spirit inline with God. Too bad the people he killed didn't get that same opportunity before he murdered them.

_________________
''The evolving soul is not made divine by what it does, but by what it strives to do"

The Urantia Book

'Laus Deo"


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:04 pm +0000
Posts: 568
tookie be gone. the fact that 'tookie' be gone' - does not Guarantee he is closer to a spiritual state of being.

He may be hangin' with Hitler boy!!

Do you (out there) have children? Do you feel responsible for children? Do you have the ethical and moral and legal responsiblity of nurthuring a child? Or two or three.

In general, the experience of Parenthood does change you. Make you move away from the 'intellectual types,' and join the ranks of the really real responsible people.

p.s. 'tookie' being executed
does not
equate
to
'tookie' being advanced...........


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:40 pm +0000
Posts: 2565
What Jesus said to the condemned criminal -

p1475:5 133:4.12 To the condemned criminal he said at the last hour: "My brother, you have fallen on evil times. You lost your way; you became entangled in the meshes of crime. From talking to you, I well know you did not plan to do the thing which is about to cost you your temporal life. But you did do this evil, and your fellows have adjudged you guilty; they have determined that you shall die. You or I may not deny the state this right of self-defense in the manner of its own choosing. There seems to be no way of humanly escaping the penalty of your wrongdoing. Your fellows must judge you by what you did, but there is a Judge to whom you may appeal for forgiveness, and who will judge you by your real motives and better intentions. You need not fear to meet the judgment of God if your repentance is genuine and your faith sincere. The fact that your error carries with it the death penalty imposed by man does not prejudice the chance of your soul to obtain justice and enjoy mercy before the heavenly courts


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:08 am +0000
Posts: 2170
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Amen Coop. Perfect Excerpt.

Fatboy I have three kids, And I have talked to them about these issues. They are difficult. But we can choose if favor of justice or mercy. They and many of their friends are disappointed that the establishment choose death over life without parole for Tookie.

If you are seriously concerned weather someone lives or dies, study the case as profondly as you can before deciding. In terms of Tookie advancing or not just pure speculation.
Be well and Prosper!

_________________
Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


Last edited by Joer on Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:01 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: thanks, Coop
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:04 pm +0000
Posts: 568
Thank you, Coop. I shall not argue with Christ Michael about this issue - or anything.

Others, feel free to 'be more grown-up' than our King. I choose to bow my head and knee.

The WONDROUS thing about the Urantia Book is it offers beautiful
stories about life - directly from the King of All.

Yes, we can still misinterpret, twist things. But we can reread, discuss
with others (with humility towards the Higher Mentality and Heart of Greater Beings, and make real progress as souls.
I absolutely believe it.

Hi Joer, one other point.

If we the society had put to death this 'tookie' a year or 2 or 3 or 4
after sentencing, we would not have the l o n g space of time for
this issue to play out.

It would be better - I believe - for the family of the victims if
the appeals process did not go on and on.

I would like to see a shorter appeals process - we would not
have 'hollywood actors' doing their hollywood crying.......


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: hitler's fine
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:32 pm +0000
Posts: 474
Location: sonarington
i'm against the death penalty. like what joer said, i think it's more of a punishment to keep someone in prison for a lifetime rather than send them to the mercy of a mansion world. as for hitler, i'm sure he's doing fine, probably reincarnated as a chinese housewife or something. you do realize that he was just the leading face of the opinions of the times. in other words, if it hadn't been him, it would have been someone else, most anyone or everyone in hitler's army would of and could of filled the role that hitler played.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:08 am +0000
Posts: 2170
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
fatboy2 I like your last two posts. Very sincere.

I agree with you fatboy2 on the timeing. If we're going to impose capital punishment on someone, the swifter justice is served the better. Additionally I think the family of the victoms should perform the execution. If they grant mercy than it's life in prison with a simular chance to repent as you would be offered in the next life.

I also think that Froggy's is very important. It's not about Tookie. It's about us and how we visit justice upon a fellow human being. Check out this recent excerpt from my local paper The Press Democrat I live 30 miles from San Quentin.

Quote:
It is about us.

Does the United States really want to be one of the few remaining industrialized nations that uses the death penalty? Do we want to be in the same category with China and Iran and Afghanistan when it comes to that key human rights question?

Our society touts its values as an example to the rest of the world, yet we single out about one prisoner a week for a ritualistic killing. What kind of an example is that?

The arguments against the death penalty are so numerous that I can't even begin to list them here, so let's look at the primary argument in favor of it. It goes like this: The death penalty is the ultimate deterrent; its use guarantees the criminal will never commit another crime.


And we should not forget the victims they need our support even more. I talked to a victim last week. Around fifteen years ago her father went on a jealous rampage and killed her mother, two aunts, her grandmother, and two of her sisters, and left her for dead at the local dump with her throat slit from ear to ear. Now you can't get more heinous than that. She was moved out of state at the time. She's nineteen now and is back and doind research to write a book. I called her because I have some information regarding what happened that she may not have. I emailed her and let her know her and her family have been in my prayers over the years.

May brother may he rest in peace (colon caner at 37) cleaned out the house where the murders happened. I also saw letters her father wrote of repetance in a small biligual news paper. They included religious picture he drew from his cell on death row at San Quentin. She said she might like to use me as a translator to talk to her father's brother, who would like to speak with her. I said I'd be willing to help her in any way I can.

Well the point is we can do a lot to help the victims. And we should. But urging vengence or retribution doesn't help as much as forgiveness.

That's been my experience over and over again.

God Bless you Fatboy2, Froggy, Coop, Richard, Burgo, Angel and all who care about this issue. It is important that we are moved by it and we do what we can especially for the victims but also for Us as a society and the Prepetrators.

Amen

_________________
Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:51 pm +0000
Posts: 269
Location: USA
71:2.3 "Popular elections may not always decide things rightly, but they represent the right way even to do a wrong thing."

133:4.12 "You or I may not deny the state this right of self-defense in the manner of its own choosing." -spoken by Jesus in regards to death penalty

22:4.3 "Adjudication is the highest function of any government, and those who are intrusted with verdict rendering should be chosen from the highest and most noble types of the most experienced and understanding individuals."

I hope he was innocent... but I feel we should respect their decision.

_________________
"Through art and philosophy the material-minded man is inveigled into the contemplation of the spiritual realities and universe values of eternal meanings." 5:4.4


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:08 am +0000
Posts: 2170
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Hey everybody my 15 year old read this thread and wanted to share this with you.

Article from The Press Democrat: Thursday, December 15, 2005

Saving lives

EDITOR: I had a slight spark of hope that Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger would have a heart and spare a life. But the movies in which he played the hero who saved lives and fought for justice obviously didn’t affect him at all. He was given a real chance to save a real life, and he didn’t. Stanley “Tookie” Williams may or may not have committed those crimes, but our great governor made the decision to execute without even speaking with Williams. Our governor had the chance to show all those troubled children that redemption is possible.

This is a great message we have sent out to our children: Justify murder with murder. At least Williams taught peace, a term our own government has yet to learn. I am ashamed of our government and country. With all the hate and killing that goes on every day, how can we say that we are the greatest country? How ironic that this execution has taken place during the season of hope, love and peace.

All I can say is thanks to Williams. Thanks for saving so many lives. I’m sorry we couldn’t do the same for him. May he rest in peace.
Sophie Bell, Rohnert Park, CA.
Quote:
Hi
I’m joers daughter. I wanted him to show you guys this, and for those of you who think him to be a smart-ass, hey I live with the guy. Yeah, but he means good. Anyway, it’s just another opinion.

My dad wants this one shared:
(From same place/date)

Profound Cruelty

EDITOR: I hope our capital punishment-espousing friends felt good about themselves on Tuesday. Thanks to them, the Earth is one-man’s-worth richer on needlessly shed blood, and humanity is exponentially that much more entrenched in its petty profound cruelties.
Robert McRae Jr. Santa Rosa, CA

_________________
Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:47 pm +0000
Posts: 550
Location: South Carolina
Sounds good.

lets make a statement nation wide. no matter what you do you will never be given the death penalty. Clemency will be offered as long as you write a book, and after 15 years or so in jail, with nothing else to do but be a good person we'll state you are rehabilitated and should be let free.

Why don't we even start a new tax in order for all of them to have a savings account set aside for their "new life". how dare the governor not treat this like a movie and instead abide by the verdict of the jury, and punishment by a judge that DID have all the information about the entire case.

Joer why don't you go down to the local jail house and take in a convicted criminal. Into your home with your family. And not just a drug dealer, a murderer. How bout a child molester? You can pay for his therapy bill while you're at it.

You can't be picky either. Because we have to show all clemency for their actions. So make sure and get the worst one, the meanest. The one they want to put to death within the next ten years.
Offer to take him into your home, and be responsible for his actions.

You would definitly be doing more than just placing blame on all the law abiding citizens, and putting our society down for trying to maintain a safe, civil enviroment for ourselves, and our families.

Good luck with that. Let me know how it goes.
Sincerely
Angel

_________________
''The evolving soul is not made divine by what it does, but by what it strives to do"

The Urantia Book

'Laus Deo"


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:09 pm +0000
Posts: 1817
I woke up this morning planning to suggest we put a stop to this discussion only to find Angel's post making it all worthwhile by summarizing the content here perfectly.

This has become a political discussion with no connection to Urantia Book teachings. Jesus spoke to this very issue -- those who don't agree with what Jesus plainly laid out have a right to continue to hold overly sympathetic and emotion based opinions but that discussion doesn't belong here; other sites will welcome them but I think they've run their course here and will eventually more than likely be removed.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:08 am +0000
Posts: 2170
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
I liked today's Quote for the day.

Sympathy and Compassion
Jesus was not a sociologist, but he did labor to break down all forms of selfish isolation. He taught pure sympathy, compassion.
Page 1580 (140:8.11)

_________________
Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:32 pm +0000
Posts: 474
Location: sonarington
but he was not a moral reformer. P.1582 - §2 Jesus had little to say about the social vices of his day; seldom did he make reference to moral delinquency. He was a positive teacher of true virtue. He studiously avoided the negative method of imparting instruction; he refused to advertise evil. He was not even a moral reformer. He well knew, and so taught his apostles, that the sensual urges of mankind are not suppressed by either religious rebuke or legal prohibitions. His few denunciations were largely directed against pride, cruelty, oppression, and hypocrisy. 8) :( :smile: :shock: :evil:


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:08 am +0000
Posts: 2170
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Amen Froggy. So true. How are you doing my Brother?

:smile:

_________________
Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: Google [Bot], Google Feedfetcher


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group