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I am now one third of the way through reading the Urantia Book that is the Forward, Part 1 and Part 2. This is my first read so I want to make this thread to reflect a little.

So what are my impressions so far? Well, I can say that I am very impressed at how well structured the book is. It has so much material in it that I cannot have one uniform feeling over if that makes sense. Mostly I am impressed at the philosophy part as it prompted me to ponder deep life and existential questions. My favorite quote is in Paper 28 which I have referenced in other threads.

There were things which I found very difficult to comprehend that were frequently referred to like God the Supreme and the Unqualified Absolute.

I found the description of Paradise, Havona, the architectural spheres and the celestials fascinating yet unbelievable upon first reading. Every time there was yet another order of celestials and another group of architectural spheres, I found it quite tedious but paradoxically, when I'm not given a lot of detail or no detail at all for unrevealed orders or spheres with little information like the seven luminous worlds of the Eternal Son, I long for more information!

I am not well versed in a lot of science, so I am unqualified to comment on much of it in the book. I will say I was slightly disturbed when reading in paper 52 about there being little value in investing time and love to the genetically degenerate. I felt that was an insult to my autistic nephew.

Overall, the book is an emotional roller-coaster with parts I found I could agree with and others I could not. Is this book an actual revelation? I would say parts of it. I was not impressed at the lack of transparency in the Book and in the UB Foundation website at their omission of the sleeping subject narrative.

Has the book changed my life yet? Not quite. I've begun asking myself many existential questions recently and my family is very aware that the book is becoming a large part of my life recently. The book has really grown on me but I'm not quite ready to say that it has transformed me.

Anyway, I still have part 3 and part 4 to read and look forward to more reflections in the future. Maybe by the time I reach part 4, I'll want to make life adjustments as that is the part with the teachings of Jesus. We'll see.


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Thanks William for sharing your progress, your reflections, and your concerns related to reading the first 2 parts of the UB!! Quite an achievement actually.

I think all of us, at least me, were likewise daunted and challenged by the new terms and concepts and depth of detail and breadth of scope related to Havona and all the beings introduced from Paradise to the Super Universes to the Local Universes. And, we are told, there are even more that are not yet revealed to us. The UB is really a simplified and condensed primer on universe reality. I can only imagine the vast libraries required to hold the entirety of the written records of history and fact. Both written records and living records we are told!

God the Supreme and God the Ultimate are entirely new concepts to humanity. Wonderfully logical and so reasonable to help understand evolutionary, experiential wisdom gained by all creatures in time and space by the realization of potential and the creation of new potential by its realization! Wondrous. Makes perfect sense. Really solidified the truthfulness and uniqueness of the Teachings to me. Part III will bring you far more information on these evolutionary and experiential forms of Deity and help you place them in total context with the First Source and Center and the Absoluteness of Paradise Deities.

You will also learn far more about the architectural spheres like the Mansion Worlds and the capitals of Systems, Constellations, Local and Super Universes!! I found the complexity of the material universe to be quite comforting and believable as it is so obvious by simply looking at the night sky how much more complex is reality and how much grander is reality than I was taught in school or in church. I finally began to appreciate the unimaginable lack of limits in eternity and infinity for the very first time in my life.

I'd like to know the exact quotes from Paper 52 - Planetary Mortal Epochs - which disturb you. Nowhere in the UB is anything recommended other than total and absolute love and kindness and mercy and service to all humans, especially those who suffer any form of sickness, injury, malady, or birth defects and challenges. I fear you have misunderstood some passage if you believe you've discovered anything dismissive or callous about any health condition suffered by anyone....ever. But the Papers are clear that all suffering by and from genetic traits are lovingly eliminated over great time frames by wise and loving applications of amalgamation, violet blood infusion, science, and selective breeding patterns by only the most sane, kind, practical, and intelligent applications of that which delivers the greatest good for the greatest number. Nowhere is cruelty or death or elimination or isolation recommended except for the most violent of criminals...and even they are not subject to cruelty or unfairness. Fairness and kindness are the watchwords of the universe of universes!! I wonder what makes you suspect anything else?

Any way...thanks again for sharing and well done. Best wishes in further reading!!

Bradly 8) :idea: :!:


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William S. wrote:
I will say I was slightly disturbed when reading in paper 52 about there being little value in investing time and love to the genetically degenerate. I felt that was an insult to my autistic nephew.


The use of the word "degenerate" is in reference to morality. Autism is not immoral and geneticists have yet to discover an autism gene. There are genes and gene mutations associated with autism but none that are consistently predictable in causing autism. Therefore, it would seem unlikely that the Revelation is recommending elimination of autistic individuals.

But more importantly, I don't think you can reproduce any evidence at all that the Revelation recommends that we stop loving and caring for these affected individuals.


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I cannot nail it down to just a few quotes, but please turn to paper 52 part 2: Post-Planetary Prince Man. The last four paragraphs bothered me a little.


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William S. wrote:
I cannot nail it down to just a few quotes, but please turn to paper 52 part 2: Post-Planetary Prince Man. The last four paragraphs bothered me a little.


Well....let's talk about it and consider the text itself. First, I applaud and agree with Kat/Bonita's post above: "The use of the word "degenerate" is in reference to morality. Autism is not immoral and geneticists have yet to discover an autism gene. There are genes and gene mutations associated with autism but none that are consistently predictable in causing autism. Therefore, it would seem unlikely that the Revelation is recommending elimination of autistic individuals.

But more importantly, I don't think you can reproduce any evidence at all that the Revelation recommends that we stop loving and caring for these affected individuals."


So let's view the quotes with that in mind - medical maladies are not considered "degenerate" which is a moral term which describes, I think, sociopaths and psychopaths without any conscience, empathy, altruism, regret, or remorse. A very specific percent of the general population that cannot hear or is unresponsive to the Spirit within. All other beings have eternal potential.

52:2.9 (592.2) The races are purified and brought up to a high state of physical perfection and intellectual strength before the end of this era. The early development of a normal world is greatly helped by the plan of promoting the increase of the higher types of mortals with proportionate curtailment of the lower. And it is the failure of your early peoples to thus discriminate between these types that accounts for the presence of so many defective and degenerate individuals among the present-day Urantia races.

52:2.10 (592.3) One of the great achievements of the age of the prince is this restriction of the multiplication of mentally defective and socially unfit individuals. Long before the times of the arrival of the second Sons, the Adams, most worlds seriously address themselves to the tasks of race purification, something which the Urantia peoples have not even yet seriously undertaken.

52:2.11 (592.4) This problem of race improvement is not such an extensive undertaking when it is attacked at this early date in human evolution. The preceding period of tribal struggles and rugged competition in race survival has weeded out most of the abnormal and defective strains. An idiot does not have much chance of survival in a primitive and warring tribal social organization. It is the false sentiment of your partially perfected civilizations that fosters, protects, and perpetuates the hopelessly defective strains of evolutionary human stocks.

52:2.12 (592.5) It is neither tenderness nor altruism to bestow futile sympathy upon degenerated human beings, unsalvable abnormal and inferior mortals. There exist on even the most normal of the evolutionary worlds sufficient differences between individuals and between numerous social groups to provide for the full exercise of all those noble traits of altruistic sentiment and unselfish mortal ministry without perpetuating the socially unfit and the morally degenerate strains of evolving humanity. There is abundant opportunity for the exercise of tolerance and the function of altruism in behalf of those unfortunate and needy individuals who have not irretrievably lost their moral heritage and forever destroyed their spiritual birthright.

Please note that Paper 52 describes the evolutionary process as directed by our celestial rulers without rebellion, default, isolation, or separation of mortals and celestial leadership. This process of bio upliftment is not and never should be in the hands of immature mortals. Never!! In our own case on Urantia, science and mortal leadership will make progress and also blunder our way through genetic research and disease elimination. Let us hope love and wisdom will arrive along with such scientific abilities and progress.

But nowhere does the UB show any disregard for loving kindness and tender mercy for any persons who suffer from mental, emotional, or physical maladies.

Hope that helps....and don't mean to be argumentative at all. Do not hesitate to ask questions or point out any text which confuses, surprises, or concerns you. That's why we are all here after all!!!

:wink: :biggrin:


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But for Urantians, I believe that 52:2.12 refers to something within myself. I wouldn't project that onto other persons unless I fully overcame that within me. This is something I must morally restrain, while allowing the elocution of the original part (pattern) of Andon to harmonize with the bestowal of Adam. As will creatures, I believe all Andonites understand the necessity of such.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
But for Urantians, I believe that 52:2.12 refers to something within myself. I wouldn't project that onto other persons unless I fully overcame that within me. This is something I must morally restrain, while allowing the elocution of the original part (pattern) of Andon to harmonize with the bestowal of Adam. As will creatures, I believe all Andonites understand the necessity of such.


Thanks for not projecting....except you did!! Here's 52:2.12 again:

52:2.12 (592.5) It is neither tenderness nor altruism to bestow futile sympathy upon degenerated human beings, unsalvable abnormal and inferior mortals. There exist on even the most normal of the evolutionary worlds sufficient differences between individuals and between numerous social groups to provide for the full exercise of all those noble traits of altruistic sentiment and unselfish mortal ministry without perpetuating the socially unfit and the morally degenerate strains of evolving humanity. There is abundant opportunity for the exercise of tolerance and the function of altruism in behalf of those unfortunate and needy individuals who have not irretrievably lost their moral heritage and forever destroyed their spiritual birthright.

You seem to be saying that the aboriginal stock of Urantia are degenerated, unsalvable, abnormal, inferior, socially unfit, and morally degenerate. Not true!! And also, that the Adamic violet blood somehow cures the aboriginal races of these undesirable traits but the default has failed to properly salvage the Urantian barbarians - us. I hope I misunderstand as this is certainly not true in any case or by any means.

Note the terms "socially" unfit and "morally" degenerate strains. These are those that are considered degenerate, abnormal, inferior, etc. Why? Because they are unresponsive to the Spirit within. They cannot or will not attach their branch to the vine. It is not the normal confusions, doubts, uncertainties, ignorance, and inexperience of normal mortals in the earlier epochs; no, it is a systems issue that prevents discernment and response to any Divine circuitry.

This is very rare....on all worlds....including Urantia. Your personal doubts as to your standing are yours alone and just for you Stephen. And although I and others have encouraged your faith and trust in God and the assurances of faith and truth in this life, you remain filled with doubts, fears, and darkness. This is too bad. But please do not share those here with a new reader who describes their own hopes and ideals and asks questions as they first read the Papers and share their discovery here. Where's your manners?? And where's the mods??

And Stephen...you might want to look up the definition of elocution...I don't think it means what you think as it certainly makes no sense as you use it. And I don't know who you might consider Andonite? Only a few Eskimos might have sufficient Andonite blood to consider them aboriginal. 99.9999999999% of the rest of us are primarily Andite….amalgamated into a single race by all the original and earlier mixed races of our world.

It would be so helpful if you EVER posted ANY supporting text for your wild claims which contradict the contents of that which we share here together. Good Grief. :roll:


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
But for Urantians, I believe that 52:2.12 refers to something within myself. I wouldn't project that onto other persons unless I fully overcame that within me.


I can agree with that. Of course you would want to take the mote out of your own eye before finding fault in others. In terms of tolerance, tenderness and altruism I think those attitudes are often confused with pity. Pity is not to be disdained, but that feeling is not always Thought Adjuster derived as are the others. Pity can be purely human, adjutant, in origin.

SEla_Kelly wrote:
This is something I must morally restrain, while allowing the elocution of the original part (pattern) of Andon to harmonize with the bestowal of Adam. As will creatures, I believe all Andonites understand the necessity of such.


Human emotions that first appeared in Andon and Fonta included a rudimentary form of pity. No doubt evolution and revelation contributed to the development of that sentiment leading up to altruism. I agree the Adamic biological uplift contributed mightily to the balanced control of one's emotions that Jesus recommended.

(708.3) 62:5.5 Not only were such human feelings manifested in these primitive humans, but many more highly evolved sentiments were also present in rudimentary form. They were mildly cognizant of pity, shame, and reproach and were acutely conscious of love, hate, and revenge, being also susceptible to marked feelings of jealousy.

(1673.3) 149:4.3 Jesus always preached temperance and taught consistency — proportionate adjustment of life problems. He pointed out that overmuch sympathy and pity may degenerate into serious emotional instability; that enthusiasm may drive on into fanaticism.


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We are taught to withhold our sympathy from the undeserving who suffer by their own hand and bad choices and foolishness which are self serving and self centered. The most egregious examples of the unfit are those who are totally self important and have no conscience or altruism. Sympathy should be extended to those who strive and those who suffer at the hands of others and by unfairness and the accidents of time. Some give sympathy only to receive it for themselves.

159:3.11 (1766.7) Teach all believers to avoid leaning upon the insecure props of false sympathy. You cannot develop strong characters out of the indulgence of self-pity; honestly endeavor to avoid the deceptive influence of mere fellowship in misery. Extend sympathy to the brave and courageous while you withhold overmuch pity from those cowardly souls who only halfheartedly stand up before the trials of living. Offer not consolation to those who lie down before their troubles without a struggle. Sympathize not with your fellows merely that they may sympathize with you in return.

It is a shame Stephen that you constantly claim to be without the assurance of the Spirit and that you also constantly criticize those of us who embrace this teaching of Divine assurance. Assurance is the Spirit's reward of faith and with it comes the fruits of the Spirit and that joy which passes all understanding!

100:4.3 (1097.7) But the great problem of religious living consists in the task of unifying the soul powers of the personality by the dominance of love. Health, mental efficiency, and happiness arise from the unification of physical systems, mind systems, and spirit systems. Of health and sanity man understands much, but of happiness he has truly realized very little. The highest happiness is indissolubly linked with spiritual progress. Spiritual growth yields lasting joy, peace which passes all understanding.

This joy and assurance are for all the children of time and those tadpoles on Urantia. Of all ages and epochs and races and origins....including the amalgamated human race of Urantia today.

8)

159:3.12 (1766.8) When my children once become self-conscious of the assurance of the divine presence, such a faith will expand the mind, ennoble the soul, reinforce the personality, augment the happiness, deepen the spirit perception, and enhance the power to love and be loved.


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Dear William S.,

You are not alone. After my first read-through I was in disagreement with a lot of what I read. I was angry at some of it too. It took a long time to become accustom to the blunt and direct language. I truly did not like whole sections of what I was reading. For some reason I persisted and I haven't stopped reading it since the mid 90's.

I would make the suggestion that this book is a lifetime effort and a real dedication. When you get to part 4 you will read about an individual who will give you an example of what real dedication looks like when applied with a whole heart. We humans are so biased and indoctrinated by this planet that we hardly give credit to our ignorance and cannot realize that we really view reality as if it were through the hole of a straw. We have no clue of the big picture of things and it takes years (sometimes decades) to pound the concepts of that bigger picture into our thick skulls, at least this is true of many of us who have given this book that much time to work its way into our souls.

After you read it through once you might get the idea that it is part 4 that will change the world, the other three parts might help change the individual but, part 4 is what the world needs. I truly believe that this book was printed with just that purpose in mind and it is us "the readers" wherein this change happens through. Perhaps William you have been called to assist !

Sincerely,
Paul


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No, the Andonites are not degenerate Bradley and I had not suggested that ever (dude..). To be a will creature is prerequisite to have entered Paradise. The Andonites are the great original strain of humanity, the inheritors of Urantia. It is nothing to say that Adamite is superior to Andonite; hear the continuous prayer that humanity is not submerged in wantonness, lasciviousness, apathy, or greed. I do not know how to say this, "may the better half of the Andonites be preserved;" "Let every nation deal with this within themselves, as in the example of Abraham and Isaac." I would that those who love more, prosper more, not just on Jerusem but on Urantia as well.

But you heard of how the Neandertal had somehow at some generational linneage, incorporated stock from the tribe of lemurs who escaped the final battle? There are those traits that can stymie the attempt at doing God's will. Mental attitude and pattern selectivity are a great stumbling block for the group 3 of Ascenders, ones who can know God but possess no inerrant ability to do God's will, so must learn to choose that reality.

I know this within me, having grown up in a household with abundance of sarcasm, wit that masks true feelings. But I was adopted into an Andite household, that taught the healthy expression of emotion, and the acceptance of other true opinion. As one who is Andon, I had always prayed to know and see the example of what healthy emotion expression within household felt like.

You need to consider that humanity evolving, but currently there is the evil patterns existing within my genetic makeup. How could that be expunged; it could either be eliminated, or by some virtue, I can feel the pattern within me, the resonance of my pattern as expressed by others, and realise how such pattens affect the proclivities for relative prudence/righteousness. And then learn to restrain those patterns morally while allowing the patterns that are functional to be expressed freely.

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The myth and lie of original sin. Oh dear. You are no Andonite Stephen. Good Grief. :roll:


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
You need to consider that humanity evolving, but currently there is the evil patterns existing within my genetic makeup.


Yes you're right that human character is inherited and some character traits are evil (not sin). Evil simply means incomplete, imperfect and erroneous. If you read the descriptions of the characters of the apostles, the authors mention both the strengths and weaknesses of their character traits, the good and the evil.

SEla_Kelly wrote:
How could that be expunged; it could either be eliminated, or by some virtue, I can feel the pattern within me, the resonance of my pattern as expressed by others, and realise how such pattens affect the proclivities for relative prudence/righteousness. And then learn to restrain those patterns morally while allowing the patterns that are functional to be expressed freely.


What you're describing is the growth of a righteous character by attempting to do the will of the Father. Although we can't change our inheritance, we can certainly overcome it and strive for a noble character through self-mastery. Self-master involves changing our emotional responses to those hereditary weaknesses. I think the Thought Adjuster attempts to adjust those attitudes for us, all we need to do try to follow his lead.

(1572.8 ) 140:4.8 An effective philosophy of living is formed by a combination of cosmic insight and the total of one's emotional reactions to the social and economic environment. Remember: While inherited urges cannot be fundamentally modified, emotional responses to such urges can be changed; therefore the moral nature can be modified, character can be improved. In the strong character emotional responses are integrated and co-ordinated, and thus is produced a unified personality. Deficient unification weakens the moral nature and engenders unhappiness.

(848.6) 76:2.6 Abel had an ideal inheritance, and heredity lies at the bottom of all character; but the influence of an inferior environment virtually neutralized this magnificent inheritance.


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That's right Abel was a true Adamite. We can say that he did not live long enough to display the full fruition of the human spirit, but we know that even his dogs obeyed him, after his demise as in "his dogs brought his flock home." That Central Universe patterns from which Adam & Eve the Material Sons were drawn, sounds awfully intrinsic: "a gift of grace." to all living forms on a materially progressing world. The plasm has "inherent immunity to the disease forms existing parasitically as retrograde evolutionary beings." That means that evil become a potential in the set of human actions, manifestable let me say even through DNA perhaps. I must find what is workable within me, what may be useful, and trust that the human Adjuster selects the proper set of emotions to manifest, to prepare man for the life that is to come. I can't tell you if the Adjuster relies on a smaller % of my potential than others, but I think that within the realm of human consciousness, a person who is relaxed or peaceful enough to allow the manifestation of actual graciousness, would only need to rely on the small % of DNA that is differential, nonregulatory. I feel that the retrogression of morality within the human mind may contact evil within ourselves, contact with a myriad of organism that coexist within the human environment, and such proclivity causes a loss of energy: a lack of cohesiveness within the mind of the human individual. So if you compare the inherent immunities, Adam compared to Andon, there is obviously so much that, perchance, Andons would have to avoid: following the moral dictate rather than temptation. Exposure creates risk, and so what (examples) children are learn from, even in terms of symbolic expression, have to be eventually reconciled with that energetic actuality within the life of the supreme being, the life of every atom.

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And how do we reconcile the realm of human morality, the mind arena of human choosing, with the energetic actuality of the grand universe? How do we manage the moral realm, in lieu of the fact or theory, the principle that Jesus taught: that a person's faith can heal them, can restore wholeness?

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