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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:10 am +0000
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Hi Bonita,

I agree. :) And I don’t say that increasing the amount of reality that we are consciously or (unconsciously) experiencing is simply a matter of increasing a fundamental sample frequency in our minds by sheer will power. If attaining spiritual enlightenment or God-consciousness would be a simple matter of finding and turning some mental dial, then no doubt TUB would have told us about it. Instead TUB teaches us that living faith is the path to enlightenment. However, TUB also tells us that “much (almost all) of our life and its memories are just mental scaffolding which, after having bridged us over to the morontia level, no longer serves a (real) purpose”. The only “real” experiential net effect of our sincere free-will attempts to live faith seems to be an increased “degree” of reality in our being. We become “more real”, which subsequently enables the growth of the soul and ultimately facilitates personality survival in death.
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(1235.4) 112:5.22 The Thought Adjuster will recall and rehearse for you only those memories and experiences which are a part of, and essential to, your universe career. If the Adjuster has been a partner in the evolution of aught in the human mind, then will these worth-while experiences survive in the eternal consciousness of the Adjuster. But much of your past life and its memories, having neither spiritual meaning nor morontia value, will perish with the material brain; much of material experience will pass away as onetime scaffolding which, having bridged you over to the morontia level, no longer serves a purpose in the universe. But personality and the relationships between personalities are never scaffolding; mortal memory of personality relationships has cosmic value and will persist. On the mansion worlds you will know and be known, and more, you will remember, and be remembered by, your onetime associates in the short but intriguing life on Urantia.

It is also a fact that many people report religious enlightenment and/or so called cosmic experiences as a sudden discrete change of their entire conscious experience of reality. So my (educated) guess is that there must be a relatively straightforward variable underlying such experience. That is not to say, however, that we can control this variable directly by a simple act of free-will. But in the end, it might be the only “(spiritually) real” effect of our free-will and living faith and God's grace. Thus, manipulating this variable (through living faith) is ultimately the only real free-will choice we have. The rest is just mental scaffolding. And I argued how such a view may be compatible with TUB..

Greetings, Bart


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Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:44 am +0000
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Hello Bart,

Thanks again for an excellent opportunity to talk about these things. I think we are beginning to communicate with a similar language, or at least the same alphabet.

I agree that living faith is the key to "enlightenment". I started a thread on this topic on the UAI forum and I wouldn't mind delving into it again, but not today. I'm coming up upon another busy, busy weekend here.

You wrote:
Bart wrote:
It is also a fact that many people report religious enlightenment and/or so called cosmic experiences as a sudden discrete change of their entire conscious experience of reality. So my (educated) guess is that there must be a relatively straightforward variable underlying such experience. That is not to say, however, that we can control this variable directly by a simple act of free-will. But in the end, it might be the only “(spiritually) real” effect of our free-will and living faith and God's grace. Thus, manipulating this variable (through living faith) is ultimately the only real free-will choice we have. The rest is just mental scaffolding. And I argued how such a view may be compatible with TUB..


Yes, people do report that and I believe them having had my share of genuine personal religious experiences with sudden realizations/revelations which have changed my life forever. But, it is an ongoing process; it never ceases. Enlightenment is a life long venture.

The mental scaffolding to which you refer is essential to building a spiritual edifice. The type of structure we build depends much upon the scaffolding we erect in this life. Although the relative structure we erect within our minds passes away, sometimes in this life, but more frequently in the next, the new structure is always built upon the old. We evolve. That is why Jesus taught the parable of the carpenter and spoke of the keystone. Yes these frames or scaffolding we build are ultimately irrelevant, yet they are necessary. Best to build carefully and wisely.

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p1260:2-3 115:1.1-1.2 Partial, incomplete, and evolving intellects would be helpless in the master universe, would be unable to form the first rational thought pattern, were it not for the innate ability of all mind, high or low, to form a universe frame in which to think. If mind cannot fathom conclusions, if it cannot penetrate to true origins, then will such mind unfailingly postulate conclusions and invent origins that it may have a means of logical thought within the frame of these mind-created postulates. And while such universe frames for creature thought are indispensable to rational intellectual operations, they are, without exception, erroneous to a greater or lesser degree.

Conceptual frames of the universe are only relatively true; they are serviceable scaffolding which must eventually give way before the expansions of enlarging cosmic comprehension. The understandings of truth, beauty, and goodness, morality, ethics, duty, love, divinity, origin, existence, purpose, destiny, time, space, even Deity, are only relatively true. God is much, much more than a Father, but the Father is man's highest concept of God; nonetheless, the Father-Son portrayal of Creator-creature relationship will be augmented by those supermortal conceptions of Deity which will be attained in Orvonton, in Havona, and on Paradise. Man must think in a mortal universe frame, but that does not mean that he cannot envision other and higher frames within which thought can take place.


I believe you are attempting to envision these higher frames of thought with your mathematical formulas and I applaud that. My purpose for this dialogue is to prevent, what I think is a mistake, of attempting to view all forms of thought through only a mathematical or scientific lens. I would like you to have binocular vision, maybe even triocular . . . and maybe you do . . . just don't know.


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