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And we must not forget that we should also be students of life. The Spirit of Truth is always with us and The Father is nearer yet.


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Manny/toto/Louis/luocol/JohnnyBones/etc., etc. - I can hardly express my appreciation for turning the topic toward the acknowledgement of the importance of this book of facts we study here together! Eureka!!

For it is by this gift that we learn so much about the intimate relationship we each have with our First Source and Center and the gift of our Creator/Master Son...the 4th Epochal Revelation of universe reality given to our world and the one who gave us his Spirit - the Spirit of Truth to work in conjunction with the Mother's Holy Spirit and the Father Fragments. This text which teaches us how these three great spirits work in harmony to deliver each believer and faith child a personalized experience of transcendence and ascendance to our destiny into eternity.

We are told the Epochal Revelations of Fact are provided for the proper orientation of mind to more fully utilize and respond to the Spirit within upon our daily walk on this world and in this brief mortal life to enable us to progress in Spirit through the circles of transformation...the transfer of the seat of our very identity from the material nature to the spiritual nature.

Every poster on every topic I have read here at TruthBook agrees: the facts presented and studied have no importance, value, or meaning unless and until they transform the religionist's and student's perspective and, thereby, also transforms and uplifts our personal motivations, intentions, priorities, and choices at the intersections of decision, circumstance, situation, and relationship...this, to me, is the very definition of faith - the living of and acting upon knowledge. Facts cannot be truth until acted upon. So glad we agree on this fact and truth!!

Louis/Manny/toto...you keep providing so many good reasons why we "Should Be Students of TUB"! Perhaps that has been your intention all along? If so, then well done!

It is apparent from the UB, that such facts of universe reality are intended to be a functional aspect on every world from the time of establishing the Prince's headquarters and the Material Son and Daughter's Garden. Such facts and textbooks on universe reality will be found in the libraries and schools of these wondrous cities on most worlds but were lost to Urantia due to our peculiar and unique heritage. And so Machiventa Melkizedek delivered us the fact of the one and only God of all creation 4000 years ago and Michael delivered us the fact of God's paternal and loving relationship and the resulting fact of universal citizenship and brotherhood 2000 years ago, and also, as you say, the gift of the Spirit of Truth and the flood of TA's to uplift the each and the all in accordance with universe ministry, plans, and our inevitable planetary destiny of evolutionary progress through the Mortal Epochs of time.

Now, we are given the 5th Epochal Revelation to clarify and specify that destiny and universe reality, including our personal destiny and purpose and descriptions of the Spirit that indwells us. It is obvious how important this UB is to the student and our world and its contents compels us to study the reality presented, to reduce our confusions and errors and anxieties for the very purpose of living the truth and the transformation of each student-religionist into the Agondonters we might become by living in faith and in response to the Spirit within. Glorious!

For those who are interested, the Papers are filled with facts about the Son's gift - the Spirit of Truth - and its power to transform believers and thereby an entire world. A key word search for "Spirit of Truth":

http://www.urantia.org/search/book_sear ... 20Truth%22

Paper 194 is a must read on the topic as well!!

Thanks Manny/toto/Louis/et al, for this opportunity to celebrate the gift of fact and the need for study and the value that might be realized by incorporating such facts into our personal religious experience!

Bradly 8)


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Transforming perspective is not necessary. The views expressed in the urantia book fit many human perspectives, which do not require transformation. The facts are meaningful even without human involvement, but I see your argument do not need to contest your appreciation for the urantia book.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
Transforming perspective is not necessary. The views expressed in the urantia book fit many human perspectives, which do not require transformation. The facts are meaningful even without human involvement, but I see your argument do not need to contest your appreciation for the urantia book.


Thank you Stephen for your "perspective"...hahahaha. I certainly agree that the reading of the UB and/or the living of its teachings does not result in any uniformity of perspective or singularity of view. I should have been more specific. I believe that circle progress or progress in the Spirit is transformative. As we shift the seat of our identity from the material to the spiritual, then I think our view or perspective or point of view becomes shifted...we will begin to see the same things in a new way and with a transforming perspective. I meant to describe more of a process than a result, as my opinion is that this changing perspective accompanies us in our morontial adventures as well as our mortal gains.

Self mastery and personal spiritualization changes the tadpole into the frog over time. This is also illustrated, I think, by the lessons on the fruits of the spirit. We change and so does our view point related to reality and also to error. Rather than "perspective", perhaps a more accurate description would be that the maturity and wisdom gained by experience and insight and personal revelation changes that which is viewed rather than the perspective of the viewer? I would also add further that the UB is not critical for such personal transformation....it is helpful - or has been so to me - in providing a more complete and factual presentation of reality, true, but it is the living in faith and truth that is transformative and spiritizing.

In any case, it's always appreciated when another student seeks clarity of thought....and expression. Thanks!

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In my recent study of Paper 101 - The Real Nature of Religion - I came across compelling evidence of the importance and value of Epochal Revelation (the authors of the UB claim it to be the 5th such revelation to our world) and why we should definitely be Students of TUB!!

There are only two forms of revelation: personal, as delivered by our Thought Adjuster/God Fragment and in association with the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Spirit; and epochal as delivered to the whole world at certain times of planetary progress during the Mortal Epochs - see Paper 52 Planetary Mortal Epochs.

Each form of revelation has its particular form, content, and purpose to us as individuals...and our world is transformed, over time, by the aggregate progress of the individuals of the world...as goes the parts, so goes the whole we are taught.

So what are the differences in personal revelation and epochal? What makes epochal revelation so important to a world and its inhabitants?

As it happens, religion also has two forms: evolutionary and of the mind; and revelatory and of the spirit. Religion originates in the mind by the evolutionary ministry of the Adjutants and is a function of morals and ethics - the conscience. But religion grows and progresses only by the ministry of revelation....personal and epochal.

The actual facts of universe reality and the examples of truth given by those who provide such facts and knowledge, help us in the discovery of truth...and truth and spiritization are the function of personal revelation. We receive guidance and realize truth within by relationship with the spirit within but we receive factual knowledge by epochal revelation, designed to reduce confusions and eliminate errors in the pursuit of truth, beauty, and goodness. Personal and epochal revelation integrate and harmonize our spiritual experience, reality, and journey.

It is true that faith saves and knowledge does not, but it is also true that faith when accompanied by factual knowledge of reality brings more potential for more intentional and reality aligned progress.

There would be no personal revelation if epochal were sufficient...and there would be no epochal revelation if personal were sufficient....we are given both. To declare that we should not be students of Epochal Revelation is to express our own ignorance, blindness, prejudice, smugness, and superiority. Caution is advised.

101:4.3 (1109.4) Truth is always a revelation: autorevelation when it emerges as a result of the work of the indwelling Adjuster; epochal revelation when it is presented by the function of some other celestial agency, group, or personality.

101:4.4 (1109.5) In the last analysis, religion is to be judged by its fruits, according to the manner and the extent to which it exhibits its own inherent and divine excellence.

101:4.5 (1109.6) Truth may be but relatively inspired, even though revelation is invariably a spiritual phenomenon. While statements with reference to cosmology are never inspired, such revelations are of immense value in that they at least transiently clarify knowledge by:

101:4.6 (1109.7) 1. The reduction of confusion by the authoritative elimination of error.

101:4.7 (1109.8) 2. The co-ordination of known or about-to-be-known facts and observations.

101:4.8 (1110.1) 3. The restoration of important bits of lost knowledge concerning epochal transactions in the distant past.

101:4.9 (1110.2) 4. The supplying of information which will fill in vital missing gaps in otherwise earned knowledge.

101:4.10 (1110.3) 5. Presenting cosmic data in such a manner as to illuminate the spiritual teachings contained in the accompanying revelation.

5. Religion Expanded by Revelation

101:5.1 (1110.4) Revelation is a technique whereby ages upon ages of time are saved in the necessary work of sorting and sifting the errors of evolution from the truths of spirit acquirement.

101:5.2 (1110.5) Science deals with facts; religion is concerned only with values. Through enlightened philosophy the mind endeavors to unite the meanings of both facts and values, thereby arriving at a concept of complete reality. Remember that science is the domain of knowledge, philosophy the realm of wisdom, and religion the sphere of the faith experience. But religion, nonetheless, presents two phases of manifestation:

101:5.3 (1110.6) 1. Evolutionary religion. The experience of primitive worship, the religion which is a mind derivative.

101:5.4 (1110.7) 2. Revealed religion. The universe attitude which is a spirit derivative; the assurance of, and belief in, the conservation of eternal realities, the survival of personality, and the eventual attainment of the cosmic Deity, whose purpose has made all this possible. It is a part of the plan of the universe that, sooner or later, evolutionary religion is destined to receive the spiritual expansion of revelation.

Papers 100 and 101 deliver an awesome reading about the concepts of faith and religion and illuminate profoundly important meanings and values to consider. We are hard wired for religious experience. The definition of religious experience is a broad spectrum to consider...as is the many definitions and forms of faith. These lessons found within this epochal revelation should be studied to learn better the truths found in personal revelation and our own personal religious experiences!

Or so I think!

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101:5.3 (1110.6) 1. Evolutionary religion. The experience of primitive worship, the religion which is a mind derivative.

101:5.4 (1110.7) 2. Revealed religion. The universe attitude which is a spirit derivative; the assurance of, and belief in, the conservation of eternal realities, the survival of personality, and the eventual attainment of the cosmic Deity, whose purpose has made all this possible. It is a part of the plan of the universe that, sooner or later, evolutionary religion is destined to receive the spiritual expansion of revelation.

In my reflections of the two quotes above, I would offer that there are 3 phases described….and not two. In 5.3, we know that faith develops without knowledge or even experience….the religion of primitives and young children…by the Mother’s Spirit – the Adjutants in mind and the free will expressions of personality. But in 5.4 we are introduced to the effects of revelation but of two kinds! Personal revelation most often attends us by the function of faith resulting in the “universe attitude”, “assurance”, and beliefs in eternal realities and personality survival (I AM), and the purpose and intention of cosmic realities. But personal revelation only delivers such by spiritual insights and truth discernments….not the factual knowledge and understanding of universe realities in any detail.

That requires Epochal Revelation! Our world now has its 5th Edition and in some ways our most detailed and exhaustive in number of facts and expansive presentation of universe realities. For those who live and die on their world of mortal birth without the addition and contribution of factual knowledge, the Mansion World experience is designed for such additional education to supplement and compliment the on-going personal revelation our TA will continue to provide us. The accumulation of factual knowledge is a functional form of our continuing education and growth as capable beings who are also completing our circle progress and spiritization prior to and subsequent to fusion with our TA.

Facts and knowledge also have meaning and value related to truth and growth and the transfer of the seat of identity and the spiritization and spiritualization of mind and soul (our morontia mind). Even fusion does not deliver all facts and knowledge to us and still will we become educated in the many centers of learning in this university of experience and endless education.

101:5.10 (1110.13) Evolutionary religion is the outworking of the endowment of the local universe mind adjutant charged with the creation and fostering of the worship trait in evolving man. Such primitive religions are directly concerned with ethics and morals, the sense of human duty. Such religions are predicated on the assurance of conscience and result in the stabilization of relatively ethical civilizations.

101:5.11 (1111.1) Personally revealed religions are sponsored by the bestowal spirits representing the three persons of the Paradise Trinity and are especially concerned with the expansion of truth. Evolutionary religion drives home to the individual the idea of personal duty; revealed religion lays increasing emphasis on loving, the golden rule.

101:5.13 (1111.3) Evolutionary religion provides only the assurance of faith and the confirmation of conscience; revelatory religion provides the assurance of faith plus the truth of a living experience in the realities of revelation. The third step in religion, or the third phase of the experience of religion, has to do with the morontia state, the firmer grasp of mota. Increasingly in the morontia progression the truths of revealed religion are expanded; more and more you will know the truth of supreme values, divine goodnesses, universal relationships, eternal realities, and ultimate destinies.

101:5.14 (1111.4) Increasingly throughout the morontia progression the assurance of truth replaces the assurance of faith. When you are finally mustered into the actual spirit world, then will the assurances of pure spirit insight operate in the place of faith and truth or, rather, in conjunction with, and superimposed upon, these former techniques of personality assurance.

Me here: To me the above teaches that religious experience is very progressive on multiple levels - from the Adjutants in the minds of children and primitives to the Spirit of the Father (the Adjusters) who deliver personal revelation and, eventually work in conjunction with the Son's Spirit of Truth to elevate faith into truth recognition. This progression and transformative process of growth and circle progress delivers an ever greater and growing sense of sublime confidence and trust and relationship that becomes very personalized in our experience - the branch attaches to the vine and the vine delivers that sustenance that, once experienced, becomes vital to the branch and grows the fruit of the Spirit upon the branch.

This fruitfulness slowly displaces a faith only religious experience with a truth filled and truth wisdom based religious experience. Faith is mind experience, truth is soul experience (the morontia mind). The assurance of truth experience begins to grow in proportion to the traverse of the Circles and the transfer of the seat of identity and the growth of the fruit of the vine. We are taught that this identity transfer reduces the ministry of the Adjutants in favor of the increasing influence of the TAs and Son's Spirit in our religious experience....and once we arrive at the Mansion Worlds and prior to fusion (here or there), the Adjutants lose all influence and ministry. They begin our religious experience and faith growth. But personal revelation is what propels us into Circle Progress and growth of soul and its powers to connect to Spirit deliver Mota - the truth based level of religious experience.

What a glorious portrayal of Religion In Human Experience and The Real Nature of Religion!!!

And how do we know all this?? Epochal Revelation! These facts of universe reality have been taught by all 5 Epochal Revelations Urantia has been blessed with so far. Epochal revelation brings context and perspective of reality to help the ascender to embrace reality and harmonize and integrate the material and the spiritual in a meaningful and valid philosophy of living an effective religious experience!! The reduction of confusion and authoritative elimination of error in knowledge, concept, perspective, and appreciation of the universe....reality portrayed in fact as well as in truth!

The question posed as title here - "Should We Be Students of TUB?" asks us if we desire to learn about reality and if such study and knowledge and understanding would be useful in our lives. The question posed inquires as to whether there is meaning and value in answers to the greatest and most ancient of mortal questions and quests to know: Where do we come from? Why are we here? What happens next and when we die? What is the source of this constant yearn and hunger and thirst within? What is love and where does it come from? What is the I AM of self awareness and where does it come from? How did everything come to be? Are there angels and what/who are they? Why do I feel like I'll live forever...and will I? What's the point to everything? Who is God? Where is God? What am I to God? What is God to me?

So...if you do not want to know these things, then NO!, you should not study the UB! Nor should you study any other book or pursue any knowledge of any kind....for you are either brain dead or pathetically stupid and lazy or you prefer your own mental inventions to reality (ignorance + prejudice = the greatest obstacle to progress!).

100:1.2 (1094.4) Some persons are too busy to grow and are therefore in grave danger of spiritual fixation. Provision must be made for growth of meanings at differing ages, in successive cultures, and in the passing stages of advancing civilization. The chief inhibitors of growth are prejudice and ignorance.



Those who say or believe that there is no need or value in Epochal Revelation deny the reality...as well as the Epochal Revelations of The Planetary Prince, Adam and Eve and the Garden, Melchizidek, and Jesus Christ. Did those have meaning and value? Yes, indeed they did!!


Bradly 8)


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fanofVan wrote:
Manny/toto/Louis/luocol/JohnnyBones/etc., etc. - I can hardly express my appreciation for turning the topic toward the acknowledgement of the importance of this book of facts we study here together! Eureka!!


fanofVan wrote:
Louis/Manny/toto...you keep providing so many good reasons why we "Should Be Students of TUB"! Perhaps that has been your intention all along? If so, then well done!


fanofVan wrote:
Thanks Manny/toto/Louis/et al, for this opportunity to celebrate the gift of fact and the need for study and the value that might be realized by incorporating such facts into our personal religious experience!


Thank you Bradly for the kind words.


fanofVan wrote:
So...if you do not want to know these things, then NO!, you should not study the UB! Nor should you study any other book or pursue any knowledge of any kind....for you are either brain dead or pathetically stupid and lazy or you prefer your own mental inventions to reality (ignorance + prejudice = the greatest obstacle to progress!).


fanofVan wrote:
Or so I think!


I'm glad that you are providing your own mental inventions (opinions). I and others benefit from knowing your approach to reality.


Louis 8)


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toto wrote:
And we must not forget that we should also be students of life. The Spirit of Truth is always with us and The Father is nearer yet.


Indeed....truth is only experience-able! It cannot be true or real to us without first being "students of life"....or students of living, always in everything. We are taught to seek meanings and values to discover truth...the why and how of living. Knowledge of meanings helps in the discovery of values and related truths. Personal revelation is an experience of life and living, as you say. Epochal revelation brings facts, meanings, context, and perspective to help us students to experience life too...in new ways and new power. All truth is personalized and experiential and comes to each in its own order and time as I understand it. We not only experience truth by living and gain wisdom therefrom and thereby but we also express our growing experiential wisdom and truth as we pass by.

Our sincerity comes more quickly than our wisdom....hahahaha! But once our motives, intentions, and priorities are aligned with the Spirit and Universe Reality, such sincerity in our decisions and free will choices will bring forth the Fruits of the Spirit and strengthen the branch's hold to the vine. Revelation, both personal and epochal, will have an ever growing effect in our minds and upon our souls and in this way we will grow, mature, and learn wisdom as we pass by. We are taught that revelation delivers the assurance of truth which supplements and displaces the evolutionary religion's assurance of faith and the assurance of the spirit is coming to us next in this transformative and transcendent progression of our soul as we transfer the seat of our identity thereby!! Glorious!

101:6.2 (1111.6) Throughout all religious experience, from its earliest inception on the material level up to the time of the attainment of full spirit status, the Adjuster is the secret of the personal realization of the reality of the existence of the Supreme; and this same Adjuster also holds the secrets of your faith in the transcendental attainment of the Ultimate. The experiential personality of evolving man, united to the Adjuster essence of the existential God, constitutes the potential completion of supreme existence and is inherently the basis for the superfinite eventuation of transcendental personality.

101:6.3 (1111.7) Moral will embraces decisions based on reasoned knowledge, augmented by wisdom, and sanctioned by religious faith. Such choices are acts of moral nature and evidence the existence of moral personality, the forerunner of morontia personality and eventually of true spirit status.

101:6.4 (1111.8) The evolutionary type of knowledge is but the accumulation of protoplasmic memory material; this is the most primitive form of creature consciousness. Wisdom embraces the ideas formulated from protoplasmic memory in process of association and recombination, and such phenomena differentiate human mind from mere animal mind. Animals have knowledge, but only man possesses wisdom capacity. Truth is made accessible to the wisdom-endowed individual by the bestowal on such a mind of the spirits of the Father and the Sons, the Thought Adjuster and the Spirit of Truth.

101:6.5 (1112.1) Christ Michael, when bestowed on Urantia, lived under the reign of evolutionary religion up to the time of his baptism. From that moment up to and including the event of his crucifixion he carried forward his work by the combined guidance of evolutionary and revealed religion. From the morning of his resurrection until his ascension he traversed the manifold phases of the morontia life of mortal transition from the world of matter to that of spirit. After his ascension Michael became master of the experience of Supremacy, the realization of the Supreme; and being the one person in Nebadon possessed of unlimited capacity to experience the reality of the Supreme, he forthwith attained to the status of the sovereignty of supremacy in and to his local universe.
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toto wrote:
And we must not forget that we should also be students of life. The Spirit of Truth is always with us and The Father is nearer yet.


So....revelation is both personal and epochal in nature. And each has its own particular function related to truth, the realization of truth, the utilization of truth for personal growth and transformation - spiritization and spiritualization, the transcendence of self and material gravity, the perfecting of soul, and experiential wisdom expressions through love of God and others.

Everything of importance in our life related to our relationships with God and with one another and with celestials and with our Creator Son - all of these are guided by and directly affected by our relationships with the Spirit within and truth realization. We are wired internally for this very function and effect. We yearn and we are aware...of ourself and of the Spirit...we are born generous, kind, gregarious, curious, sincere and grow by spiritual reason and faith affirmation by the work of the Adjutants/Holy Spirit, upon our conscious, moral choice as children we are endowed with the God Fragment (Thought Adjuster) and blessed by the Son's Spirit (Spirit of Truth) to give us personal revelation - faith insight and truth affirmation.

101:3.2 Faith-insight, or spiritual intuition, is the endowment of the cosmic mind in association with the Thought Adjuster, which is the Father’s gift to man. Spiritual reason, soul intelligence, is the endowment of the Holy Spirit, the Creative Spirit’s gift to man. Spiritual philosophy, the wisdom of spirit realities, is the endowment of the Spirit of Truth, the combined gift of the bestowal Sons to the children of men. And the co-ordination and interassociation of these spirit endowments constitute man a spirit personality in potential destiny.

Epochal revelation is that which is given to all of us and personal revelation is that given to each of us personally and individually. I think the Spirit of Truth, the gift of the Son upon completion of his time here among us...is a form of both. For the whole world was so blessed and all at once, but also is humanity of every generation since so blessed by this universal gift, and so is every person of every generation given this gift of affection, confirmation, and Divine Truth. Our Thought Adjuster/God Fragment is very personal and unique to each individual. The Spirit of Truth? More universal don't you think?

Epochal revelation tends to have a ripple effect over time, from the souce and its mortal contracts outward in space and time effect. But consider the effect of the Spirit of Truth, it was instant and universal. BAM!!

Now the 4th ER we are told was the life of Jesus...not the Spirit of Truth. But this gift was given by Jesus upon the termination of his mortal life among us. It was Jesus' life and teachings that were epochal. The Son's Spirit comes to every world of a certain Mortal Epochal point of progression and visit by a Son, so it arrives at an Epochal intersection of progress and need....and with the Son's Spirit also comes the flood of TAs. Suddenly is a world transformed and uplifted one person at a time and all persons for all future time and propelled into new and accelerated forms of personal progress and growth and truth realization and religious experience and survival assurance. WOW!! Such an event is epoch indeed! Each world only has one such occasion in its entire history.

52:5.2 (595.7) When the worlds have become ripe for spiritualization, the bestowal Son arrives. These Sons always belong to the Magisterial or Avonal order except in that case, once in each local universe, when the Creator Son prepares for his terminal bestowal on some evolutionary world, as occurred when Michael of Nebadon appeared on Urantia to bestow himself upon your mortal races. Only one world in near ten million can enjoy such a gift; all other worlds are spiritually advanced by the bestowal of a Paradise Son of the Avonal order.

52:5.6 (596.4) Upon the resurrection of a bestowal Son, on the third day after yielding up his incarnated life, he ascends to the right hand of the Universal Father, receives the assurance of the acceptance of the bestowal mission, and returns to the Creator Son at the headquarters of the local universe. Thereupon the bestowal Avonal and the Creator Michael send their joint spirit, the Spirit of Truth, into the bestowal world. This is the occasion when the “spirit of the triumphant Son is poured out upon all flesh.” The Universe Mother Spirit also participates in this bestowal of the Spirit of Truth, and concomitant therewith there issues the bestowal edict of the Thought Adjusters. Thereafter all normal-minded will creatures of that world will receive Adjusters as soon as they attain the age of moral responsibility, of spiritual choice.

194:2.2 (2060.7) The first mission of this spirit is, of course, to foster and personalize truth, for it is the comprehension of truth that constitutes the highest form of human liberty. Next, it is the purpose of this spirit to destroy the believer’s feeling of orphanhood. Jesus having been among men, all believers would experience a sense of loneliness had not the Spirit of Truth come to dwell in men’s hearts.

194:2.3 (2061.1) This bestowal of the Son’s spirit effectively prepared all normal men’s minds for the subsequent universal bestowal of the Father’s spirit (the Adjuster) upon all mankind. In a certain sense, this Spirit of Truth is the spirit of both the Universal Father and the Creator Son.

194:2.5 (2061.3) The spirit also came to help men recall and understand the words of the Master as well as to illuminate and reinterpret his life on earth.

194:2.6 (2061.4) Next, the Spirit of Truth came to help the believer to witness to the realities of Jesus’ teachings and his life as he lived it in the flesh, and as he now again lives it anew and afresh in the individual believer of each passing generation of the spirit-filled sons of God.

194:2.7 (2061.5) Thus it appears that the Spirit of Truth comes really to lead all believers into all truth, into the expanding knowledge of the experience of the living and growing spiritual consciousness of the reality of eternal and ascending sonship with God.

194:2.11 (2061.9) Since the bestowal of the Spirit of Truth, man is subject to the teaching and guidance of a threefold spirit endowment: the spirit of the Father, the Thought Adjuster; the spirit of the Son, the Spirit of Truth; the spirit of the Spirit, the Holy Spirit.

194:2.12 (2062.1) In a way, mankind is subject to the double influence of the sevenfold appeal of the universe spirit influences. The early evolutionary races of mortals are subject to the progressive contact of the seven adjutant mind-spirits of the local universe Mother Spirit. As man progresses upward in the scale of intelligence and spiritual perception, there eventually come to hover over him and dwell within him the seven higher spirit influences. And these seven spirits of the advancing worlds are:

194:2.13 (2062.2) 1. The bestowed spirit of the Universal Father — the Thought Adjusters.
194:2.14 (2062.3) 2. The spirit presence of the Eternal Son — the spirit gravity of the universe of universes and the certain channel of all spirit communion.
194:2.15 (2062.4) 3. The spirit presence of the Infinite Spirit — the universal spirit-mind of all creation, the spiritual source of the intellectual kinship of all progressive intelligences.
194:2.16 (2062.5) 4. The spirit of the Universal Father and the Creator Son — the Spirit of Truth, generally regarded as the spirit of the Universe Son.
194:2.17 (2062.6) 5. The spirit of the Infinite Spirit and the Universe Mother Spirit — the Holy Spirit, generally regarded as the spirit of the Universe Spirit.
194:2.18 (2062.7) 6. The mind-spirit of the Universe Mother Spirit — the seven adjutant mind-spirits of the local universe.
194:2.19 (2062.8) 7. The spirit of the Father, Sons, and Spirits — the new-name spirit of the ascending mortals of the realms after the fusion of the mortal spirit-born soul with the Paradise Thought Adjuster and after the subsequent attainment of the divinity and glorification of the status of the Paradise Corps of the Finality.

194:2.20 (2062.9) And so did the bestowal of the Spirit of Truth bring to the world and its peoples the last of the spirit endowment designed to aid in the ascending search for God.

Me here: And it is only by the Fifth Epochal Revelation that we have been given the knowledge and understanding of this additional and factual context for our enhanced and corrected perspective of reality, the better now and thereby to utilize personal revelation and spiritual insight and truth assurance to form a philosophy for living and of reality integration and harmonization which serves our spiritual progress, spiritization of mind and growth of soul, and the growth of spiritual fruit to better share with all others.

In such a manner does personal and epochal revelation work together for the progress of us each and for us all...or so I understand.....so...Should We Be Students Of The Urantia Book?

:lol: :?: :idea:

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Yes, we should.


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toto wrote:
Yes, we should.


It is good to know that you agree toto/Manny. As the author of the question and originator of the topic, albeit under a different name and identity - Manny - I am glad to know that going forward, you will not claim, again, that I and/or those who study, share, and quote the UB are idoloters... or worse!

Indeed, apparently, we are now in agreement that each of us and all of us are students here and now and for our entire ascendent careers and are destined to learn many more facts about reality to assist in the progressive experience of truth realization and truth assurance. And that there is an inherent relationship between knowledge of reality and the realization of truths in our relationships with each other and all others and the Spirits within; that revelation is more than the source of faith but is the source of truth and the facts of reality itself...according to the UB we study here together, all of these are inherently linked and integrated into our educational experience of transformation.

Our universe education in this universe-ity OF education and transcendent transformation, depends upon a progressive understanding of reality, its persons, plans, organization, operations, origins, destinies, potentials, eventuals, and all the relationships between all things and all beings.

Both forms of revelation, personal and epochal, are given to us to assist in the personalization of truth assurance. Facts and information are not truth but are instruments, when accurante - hahaha - of the diescovery and realization and utilization of truth by mind. One function of epochal revelation is to provide fact and information to reduce mortal confusions and authoritatively eliminate error. Why is that important if personal revelation were sufficient for our education and transformation?

I recall you originally posted the following text....evidence of both your own study of the UB and the benefit/value of accurate facts, knowledge, and information about universe reality to the Pilgrims of Time:

111:6.6 (1222.5) Science is the source of facts, and mind cannot operate without facts. They are the building blocks in the construction of wisdom which are cemented together by life experience. Man can find the love of God without facts, and man can discover the laws of God without love, but man can never begin to appreciate the infinite symmetry, the supernal harmony, the exquisite repleteness of the all-inclusive nature of the First Source and Center until he has found divine law and divine love and has experientially unified these in his own evolving cosmic philosophy.

111:6.7 (1222.6) The expansion of material knowledge permits a greater intellectual appreciation of the meanings of ideas and the values of ideals. A human being can find truth in his inner experience, but he needs a clear knowledge of facts to apply his personal discovery of truth to the ruthlessly practical demands of everyday life.



So, the UB is not an idol or false and material god of idoloters, or at least not because I and others, like yourself for example, are students of the UB and believe that the study of it is important and its contents important and relevant to personal understanding, perspective, philosophy development, and as an aid to personal revelation for truth assurance.

I am glad we are finding agreement on the benefits and need for epochal revelation and determine the obvious answer to the question you originally posed: Should We Be "Students" Of TUB?

Obviously, as you now say, "Yes, we should."

:wink: 8) :smile:


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(196:0.7) The all-consuming and indomitable spiritual faith of Jesus never became fanatical, for it never attempted to run away with his well-balanced intellectual judgments concerning the proportional values of practical and commonplace social, economic, and moral life situations. The Son of Man was a splendidly unified human personality; he was a perfectly endowed divine being; he was also magnificently co-ordinated as a combined human and divine being functioning on earth as a single personality. Always did the Master co-ordinate the faith of the soul with the wisdom-appraisals of seasoned experience. Personal faith, spiritual hope, and moral devotion were always correlated in a matchless religious unity of harmonious association with the keen realization of the reality and sacredness of all human loyalties—personal honor, family love, religious obligation, social duty, and economic necessity

Good morning Jesus.

(100:7.4) The Son of Man was always a well-poised personality. Even his enemies maintained a wholesome respect for him; they even feared his presence. Jesus was unafraid. He was surcharged with divine enthusiasm, but he never became fanatical. He was emotionally active but never flighty. He was imaginative but always practical. He frankly faced the realities of life, but he was never dull or prosaic. He was courageous but never reckless; prudent but never cowardly. He was sympathetic but not sentimental; unique but not eccentric. He was pious but not sanctimonious. And he was so well-poised because he was so perfectly unified.


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fanofVan wrote:
Obviously, as you now say, "Yes, we should."


We can now agree as to whether or not TUB should be studied. Of course we cannot ignore this gift. The question thus remains as to HOW the Revelation should be studied. There are many study techniques as you know. The are many approaches to teaching as well. The goal of study is to learn, so now we must think in terms of theories of education.

Who among us is qualified as teacher of The Fifth Epochal revelation? Where are the Professors that can stand at the lectern and teach from such a text?

If not for our minds with the indwelling of Father Fragments and the bathing Spirits this text is just word symbols without meaning. I reject the notion that TUB is like any other text that can be taught to anyone in a lecture format. No one appreciates being dragged to truth by one's brother, as evidenced by the arguments on this forum. And that is why the wisdom of our Master in the presentation of Parables was instrumental in the learning of spiritual truths.

I believe that in many ways TUB is purposely parable-like. Many will interpret the text in different ways and define word symbols differently. Not to elicit confusion but to inspire creative thinking that is dependent on one's level of contact with their TAs. This should not be a contest or battle of wills, but a call for tolerance and further contemplation, communion with our TA.

As far as the idolatry issue goes, it becomes a problem only if the Spirit teachers are left out of the mix. Otherwise we can argue about the meanings of inspire and respire, ad nauseam. Instead of, "or so I think", perhaps it can better be stated, "or so we think", as we think with Our Father.

Louis


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toto wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
Obviously, as you now say, "Yes, we should."


We can now agree as to whether or not TUB should be studied. Of course we cannot ignore this gift. The question thus remains as to HOW the Revelation should be studied. There are many study techniques as you know. The are many approaches to teaching as well. The goal of study is to learn, so now we must think in terms of theories of education.

Who among us is qualified as teacher of The Fifth Epochal revelation? Where are the Professors that can stand at the lectern and teach from such a text?

If not for our minds with the indwelling of Father Fragments and the bathing Spirits this text is just word symbols without meaning. I reject the notion that TUB is like any other text that can be taught to anyone in a lecture format. No one appreciates being dragged to truth by one's brother, as evidenced by the arguments on this forum. And that is why the wisdom of our Master in the presentation of Parables was instrumental in the learning of spiritual truths.

I believe that in many ways TUB is purposely parable-like. Many will interpret the text in different ways and define word symbols differently. Not to elicit confusion but to inspire creative thinking that is dependent on one's level of contact with their TAs. This should not be a contest or battle of wills, but a call for tolerance and further contemplation, communion with our TA.

As far as the idolatry issue goes, it becomes a problem only if the Spirit teachers are left out of the mix. Otherwise we can argue about the meanings of inspire and respire, ad nauseam. Instead of, "or so I think", perhaps it can better be stated, "or so we think", as we think with Our Father.

Louis


An interesting recital of beliefs and opinions. You are welcome to them. Of course one's beliefs and opinions are neither fact nor truth, as you know. Others believe differently and have different opinions.

As to how best one should study the Revelation, or what knowledge within the text might be of greatest interest and most value to them at a particular point in their studies, I would opine that it depends very much on the individual who is the student. The approach that works best for one will not be so for another. Even an individual student will, over time and sufficient study, discover new meanings in old and well known facts we are told...and may discover new forms of study which bring good results. Who is to say what is best for another I wonder? You? Or me? Hahahahaha.....Hardly. To believe or declare such wisdom would defy our humble status in our current state of ignorance, inexperience, and immaturity I think.

In my 40+ years of study, I have enjoyed many forms and benefitted from them all....including insightful presentations from lecturns at conferences, intimate discussions at local study groups, break out panels and group roundtable discussions at conferences, using written study materials and secondary works like the Paramony and Concordex and now the digital search engines and other topical guides, formal classes within formal curriculum at UBIS where students learn by discussion of thoughtful and thought provoking questions and not by lecture or lesson, and then of course, and most enjoyably to me is the learning by consideration of the questions and debates and discussions by other students here and other internet discussion and study group sites. And then there is the socialization with other readers over the decades at study groups, conferences big and small, Jesus Birthday gatherings and celebrations, and here and many other places and formats....as we are instructed that association with other religionists is good for us on many levels and in many ways.

I have found meaning, benefit, and value in all those forms of seeking, study, and learning. Who says one should or should not or can or cannot learn in one way or another? You? Or me? Hahahahahah....Hardly. To say or believe such a thing would only declare our own superiority and the inferiority of others I think. Dangerous ground indeed. Merely immature inexperience and self puffery might lead to such beliefs and claims.

As you say, one may not drag another to either fact or truth....an impossibility. One must be curious and hunger and yearn...or one will not learn anything at all....or not anything of value or with meaning. Who drags whom where when?

As to "interpretation"....hmmmmm....does one interpret facts? Or learn them and utilize them in the discovery of truth....which is indeed an interpretation of reality based on one's knowledge, experience, wisdom, and faith. Truth is personal and subjective, Knowledge and facts is objective and not subject so much to 'interpretation'....we are told Epochal Revelation is given to reduce the confusions and eliminate the errors of 'interpretation' and subjective opinion....or so I understand. There are tens of thousands of facts in the UB that offer no need for or room for one's opinion and interpretation....they are clearly specified with authority and clarity....and provide ample opportunity, need, and value in their study! The UB is no parable or metaphor as it clearly states for itself.

And yes, the UB brings to every mind who reads and studies it so many opportunities for inspiration and the discovery of truth by the ministry of the Spirits within who lead us into truth, beauty, and goodness as is their mission to each of us and to all of us. We are to unify the material and spiritual realities of our dual nature we are taught (and yes, Epochal Revelation teaches or is a tool of teaching utilized by the Spirit for our education and progress) to harmonize our perspective of reality by a rational philosophy of living within reality itself. "...man can never begin to appreciate the infinite symmetry, the supernal harmony, the exquisite repleteness of the all-inclusive nature of the First Source and Center until he has found divine law and divine love and has experientially unified these in his own evolving cosmic philosophy."

All of our discovery of truth, beauty, and goodness by our religious experience and by the ministering spirits of Father, Mother, and Son are related to assurance...spiritual assurance of sonship and survival and eternal life. Our assurance comes by many sources and in many forms!!

101:0.3 (1104.3) Religion, the conviction-faith of the personality, can always triumph over the superficially contradictory logic of despair born in the unbelieving material mind. There really is a true and genuine inner voice, that “true light which lights every man who comes into the world.” And this spirit leading is distinct from the ethical prompting of human conscience. The feeling of religious assurance is more than an emotional feeling. The assurance of religion transcends the reason of the mind, even the logic of philosophy. Religion is faith, trust, and assurance.

101:2.4 (1106.3) There are two basic reasons for believing in a God who fosters human survival:

101:2.5 (1106.4) 1. Human experience, personal assurance, the somehow registered hope and trust initiated by the indwelling Thought Adjuster.

101:2.6 (1106.5) 2. The revelation of truth, whether by direct personal ministry of the Spirit of Truth, by the world bestowal of divine Sons, or through the revelations of the written word.

8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:46 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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toto wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
Obviously, as you now say, "Yes, we should."


If not for our minds with the indwelling of Father Fragments and the bathing Spirits this text is just word symbols without meaning....... And that is why the wisdom of our Master in the presentation of Parables was instrumental in the learning of spiritual truths.

Louis


The authors of the UB apparently disagree. The very purpose of the UB, or a very important purpose at least, is the definition of terms and concepts, as is clearly stated in the Forward. Words do have specific definitions - meanings - which can be and are agreed upon as to those. The UB defines them with great authority, specificity, redundancy, and eloquence IMO.

I think Jesus taught the masses by parable to confound his enemies in their hopes of entrapment against the Judaic law and to inspire those of an oral tradition with easily remembered and repeated lessons which carried great truths forward in time for the mind to discover...and be confirmed by the, then, coming Spirit of Truth (the UB says specifically when and why and how Jesus used parables - another fact for us to know). Jesus did not ONLY teach by parable to be sure.

The UB, once again, contains far more of his teachings to many different groups and individuals on so many topics and taught and spoke many things which are certainly not parables or lacking in clarity and specificity - the 5th ER contains the facts of his teachings and provides us with the knowledge of his words and actions and thoughts and choices as Son of Man and as Son of God during the 4th ER....and also facts and knowledge of the first, second, and third epochal revelations...each of great importance and value to our understanding and perspective of reality!

The mind will not work or function without facts we are told....can't happen. Indeed, the mind will invent facts based on falsehood and fantasy if it must...as is obvious among some of us! So I do not think the study of facts without the Spirit is as much of a problem perhaps as the voice of the Spirit coming to those without facts or with only falsehood regarding any knowledge of reality....a truly distorted perspective polluted with, distorted by, and constrained by confusions, ignorance, falsehoods, and doubts. Evolutionary faith must make way for and builds the foundation for the greater revelationary truth - one kind, personal revelation, comes to us each by Spirit and the other, epochal revelation, comes to a whole world - in fact and deed.

To blame knowledge or facts for the distortion of mind seems peculiar...isn't it the lack of knowledge and facts which delivers the greater distortions? I think the spirits can help those minds best who have a clearer perspective of reality for the experience of truth assurance and spiritization. Thus the need for the authoritative elimination of error to reduce our confusions. While faith may trump knowledge regarding survival and soul growth, is not knowledge desirable in our pursuit and discovery of truth? Of course it is!

We are hard wired to learn and to know! Let us not suggest or recommend the stifling of our gift of curiosity. Nor forget that we are to learn to embrace uncertainty as it is the root of adventure! We seek to know and understand and do and express our learning and our experience. Perhaps it is best if we simply trust our inherent natures and endowments to lead us each and all to truth...sooner or later....one way or another...given sufficient time, love, patience, mercy, and information!

14:5.10 (159.6) Love of adventure, curiosity, and dread of monotony — these traits inherent in evolving human nature — were not put there just to aggravate and annoy you during your short sojourn on earth, but rather to suggest to you that death is only the beginning of an endless career of adventure, an everlasting life of anticipation, an eternal voyage of discovery.

14:5.11 (160.1) Curiosity — the spirit of investigation, the urge of discovery, the drive of exploration — is a part of the inborn and divine endowment of evolutionary space creatures. These natural impulses were not given you merely to be frustrated and repressed. True, these ambitious urges must frequently be restrained during your short life on earth, disappointment must be often experienced, but they are to be fully realized and gloriously gratified during the long ages to come.


0:0.1 (1.1) IN THE MINDS of the mortals of Urantia — that being the name of your world — there exists great confusion respecting the meaning of such terms as God, divinity, and deity. Human beings are still more confused and uncertain about the relationships of the divine personalities designated by these numerous appellations. Because of this conceptual poverty associated with so much ideational confusion, I have been directed to formulate this introductory statement in explanation of the meanings which should be attached to certain word symbols as they may be hereinafter used in those papers which the Orvonton corps of truth revealers have been authorized to translate into the English language of Urantia.

0:0.2 (1.2) It is exceedingly difficult to present enlarged concepts and advanced truth, in our endeavor to expand cosmic consciousness and enhance spiritual perception, when we are restricted to the use of a circumscribed language of the realm. But our mandate admonishes us to make every effort to convey our meanings by using the word symbols of the English tongue. We have been instructed to introduce new terms only when the concept to be portrayed finds no terminology in English which can be employed to convey such a new concept partially or even with more or less distortion of meaning.

0:0.3 (1.3) In the hope of facilitating comprehension and of preventing confusion on the part of every mortal who may peruse these papers, we deem it wise to present in this initial statement an outline of the meanings to be attached to numerous English words which are to be employed in designation of Deity and certain associated concepts of the things, meanings, and values of universal reality.


102:2.5 (1120.2) Even the discoveries of science are not truly real in the consciousness of human experience until they are unraveled and correlated, until their relevant facts actually become meaning through encircuitment in the thought streams of mind. Mortal man views even his physical environment from the mind level, from the perspective of its psychological registry. It is not, therefore, strange that man should place a highly unified interpretation upon the universe and then seek to identify this energy unity of his science with the spirit unity of his religious experience. Mind is unity; mortal consciousness lives on the mind level and perceives the universal realities through the eyes of the mind endowment. The mind perspective will not yield the existential unity of the source of reality, the First Source and Center, but it can and sometime will portray to man the experiential synthesis of energy, mind, and spirit in and as the Supreme Being. But mind can never succeed in this unification of the diversity of reality unless such mind is firmly aware of material things, intellectual meanings, and spiritual values; only in the harmony of the triunity of functional reality is there unity, and only in unity is there the personality satisfaction of the realization of cosmic constancy and consistency.

102:2.6 (1120.3) Unity is best found in human experience through philosophy. And while the body of philosophic thought must ever be founded on material facts, the soul and energy of true philosophic dynamics is mortal spiritual insight.

Certainly NOT the description of a parable or metaphor!!!

It is true that facts must be relational to reality and integrated and unified in mind by a philosophy that provides such an integration and harmonization of facts to truth....realizable in experience with the help of the spirit within, all of them working in harmony and integration themselves with mind, personality, and free will to create experiential wisdom and a religious experience which brings transcendent transformation to the individual.

102:6.6 (1125.1) Though reason can always question faith, faith can always supplement both reason and logic. Reason creates the probability which faith can transform into a moral certainty, even a spiritual experience. God is the first truth and the last fact; therefore does all truth take origin in him, while all facts exist relative to him. God is absolute truth. As truth one may know God, but to understand — to explain — God, one must explore the fact of the universe of universes. The vast gulf between the experience of the truth of God and ignorance as to the fact of God can be bridged only by living faith. Reason alone cannot achieve harmony between infinite truth and universal fact.

Ahhhh...the triumph of faith AND fact!!! If we are to become perfect as God IS, then knowledge and the understanding of God are a requirement for that perfecting...and thus are we gifted Epochal Revelation - a knowledge of facts to clarify mortal confusions regarding reality and a map of relations and context to enhance the pilgrim's perspective for the adjustment of philosophy to better realize the truths of faith and personal revelation provided by the Spirits within!! A wonderful orchestration and symphony of love and ministry for each of us and for all of us!!

8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:30 am +0000, edited 3 times in total.

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