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 Post subject: Spirit of Truth
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Regarding the quote below:

34:7.8 (383.2) Having started out on the way of life everlasting, having accepted the assignment and received your orders to advance, do not fear the dangers of human forgetfulness and mortal inconstancy, do not be troubled with doubts of failure or by perplexing confusion, do not falter and question your status and standing, for in every dark hour, at every crossroad in the forward struggle, the Spirit of Truth will always speak, saying, “This is the way.”



I was having a real internal struggle with this quote. I was thinking "when have I ever heard the spirit of truth show me the way." So I prayed because I seem to always be in the dark...confused constantly. In doubt most of the time. Then on the other forum I read the quote below and realized that the answers to my prayers never come to me in spoken words. Rarely do they come in written words. But, lo and behold the answer spelled out in plain English in the quote below. My prayer went something like; "when am I ever going to rid myself of my fear of survival," ....you see being raised a Catholic for me put me in a state of constant guilt growing up. And that mindset has reeked havoc on my ability to be spiritually confident, at peace with my faults. My focus was not only immature it was backward. It didn't help also that each and every born again Christian I ever met tried to save my soul from damnation, making me feel like I was not right with God. So, as a selfish immature fool, I've been fixated on the opposite thing I should be concerned about.



188:4.9 (2017.4) All this concept of atonement and sacrificial salvation is rooted and grounded in selfishness. Jesus taught that service to one’s fellows is the highest concept of the brotherhood of spirit believers. Salvation should be taken for granted by those who believe in the fatherhood of God. The believer’s chief concern should not be the selfish desire for personal salvation but rather the unselfish urge to love and, therefore, serve one’s fellows even as Jesus loved and served mortal men.



In the end we are here to learn what Love really is and it cannot be accomplished without the experience of learning what it means to be unselfish and then living that way as best we can.

I have a looooong way to go.

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Truth
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Paul,

Many years ago I too, realized that I was a "selfish immature fool", as you say. But then I also recognized that I was so much more, as well. How could I reconcile all that, I thought. Here is what I decided. I chose to see myself as both actual and potential. Actually, I was a selfish immature fool, potentially I was a finaliter. I also realized that by actualizing and identifying with my immaturity I would maintain a grounded basis for God to deal with me, to teach me to feast on disappointment, to explore my failings and in doing that allow him to reveal my faith potential in each and every area of my being. By doing that, or I should say, taking that approach, I thought I would be offering him the richest soil of my character. My worst for his best, so to speak.

I realize that while religion preaches this type of living, human nature abhors it. Ego laughs at it. Power people condemn it. Now after 48 years of falteringly practice I can see positive results.

And since we are in this for the long run anyway, I am going to stay the course.

Being quick to take the blame for the way we are being and slow to praise ourselves for a job well done is actually healthy. Honesty, deep and genuine honesty is a key component in the realization of God.

Bless you.

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Truth
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I have a question for you Jim George. You mention the closeness you feel towards two particular orders of beings who write the Urantia Papers Mighty Messenger and Melchizedeks. I can understand that the Melchizedeks are very proximal and many who have even had experiences knowing and cooperating with mortal man.

But what about the Mighty Messengers. You are able to relate to them because they are of Adamic origins, just like you? But there is so many Creator Michael Sons, and the universe is so diverse. Wouldn't Adamic Material Son and Daughters who become Mighty Messengers be very diverse? How is that not an obstacle for you?

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so that the voice of intuition may guide us
closer to our common keeper


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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Truth
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Mr. Kelly, thank you for this question.

There are a couple of ways I can think would be beneficial to answer this question so I will try to do both. My first thought was to answer directly but upon deeper reflection I found another answer.

First answer is no, that is not an obstacle for me simply because the actuality of my perception is purely personal and the reality of our proximal similarity may be fictitious. Given that postulate, it remains an exercise in perception I am practicing and the value of that isn't measured in the actual realization of factual understanding but in the expansion of my frame of reference which enhances all insight.

This leads to the second answer.

We seek God. But we don't find him until and unless we find ourselves. At that moment, the very moment at which we embrace him finding us, we are offered the opportunity to transfer "the seat of our identity" from our human material self to our budding spiritual soul and become forever subservient to that decision. As we choose that path; the path of human uncoupling and spiritual coupling, we grow our soul and by that process we discover that our intent to find God is realized more as him finding us than us finding him. It is this process of appreciation of the nature of growth in an individual's experience that I believe I perceive in the papers from the Mighty Messengers and the others who have passed through similar experiences. I see in their comments a similarity of appreciation for the reality of intellectual expansion by this process. I do not see it in the papers of those who have not had this experience.

The universal mind is one. The appreciation of that by growing individuals must be similar in that it produces the actuality of the Supreme Being. All seven Superuniverses participate, so regardless of the variations of origin the process is similar enough to be recognizable, I believe.

Truthfully, until I am able to discuss these issues directly with them on the Mansion Worlds I can't say for certain that I am correct in my assessment. But that is what I think I see.

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Truth
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SEla_Kelly wrote:
I have a question for you Jim George. You mention the closeness you feel towards two particular orders of beings who write the Urantia Papers Mighty Messenger and Melchizedeks. I can understand that the Melchizedeks are very proximal and many who have even had experiences knowing and cooperating with mortal man.

But what about the Mighty Messengers. You are able to relate to them because they are of Adamic origins, just like you? But there is so many Creator Michael Sons, and the universe is so diverse. Wouldn't Adamic Material Son and Daughters who become Mighty Messengers be very diverse? How is that not an obstacle for you?


Me here: Just a small point of clarification - Mighty Messengers are all mortal born ascenders. Finaliters do include multiple ascender types...but not the MM's. A fascinating future destiny potential! The mortal tadpole ascending to Paradise and the Corp of Finality, then Trinity embraced Trinitization and now MM - advocates for the children of time.

15:10.12 (178.12) The remaining three orders, Mighty Messengers, Those High in Authority, and Those without Name and Number, are glorified ascendant mortals. The first of these orders came up through the ascendant regime and passed through Havona in the days of Grandfanda. Having attained Paradise, they were mustered into the Corps of the Finality, embraced by the Paradise Trinity, and subsequently assigned to the supernal service of the Ancients of Days. As a class, these three orders are known as Trinitized Sons of Attainment, being of dual origin but now of Trinity service. Thus was the executive branch of the superuniverse government enlarged to include the glorified and perfected children of the evolutionary worlds.

22:2.1 (245.1) Mighty Messengers belong to the ascendant group of the Trinitized Sons. They are a class of perfected mortals who have been rebellion tested or otherwise equally proved as to their personal loyalty; all have passed through some definite test of universe allegiance. At some time in their Paradise ascent they stood firm and loyal in the face of the disloyalty of their superiors, and some did actively and loyally function in the places of such unfaithful leaders.

22:2.2 (245.2) With such personal records of fidelity and devotion, these ascending mortals pass on through Havona with the stream of the pilgrims of time, attain Paradise, graduate therefrom, and are mustered into the Corps of the Finality. Thereupon they are trinitized in the secret embrace of the Paradise Trinity and subsequently are commissioned to become associated with the Ancients of Days in the administration of the governments of the seven superuniverses.

22:2.3 (245.3) Every ascendant mortal of insurrectionary experience who functions loyally in the face of rebellion is eventually destined to become a Mighty Messenger of the superuniverse service. Likewise is any ascendant creature who effectively prevents such upheavals of error, evil, or sin; for action designed to prevent rebellion or to effect higher types of loyalty in a universe crisis is regarded as of even greater value than loyalty in the face of actual rebellion.


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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Truth
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Hi All,
I'm interested is knowing if any one has made a "compare and contrast" evaluation of the Melchizedek and MM orders in these two Papers written by each on the same general topic. Do they appear to offer two points of view?

53. The Lucifer Rebellion - Manovandet Melchizedek
54. Problems of the Lucifer Rebellion - Mighty Messenger

Louis


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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Truth
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Thank you Paul for such an interesting topic....been contemplating and studying for several days.

I would opine that the higher adjutants, the TA's, and the Son's Spirit are all highly integrated parts of the mind/soul/spirit ministry to us and, we are taught, none of these might be distinguished from another by our conscious mind - although each has their own specific role.

By these ministries comes 3 general areas of ministry - the yearning/hunger/thirst for God/Love; the whisper of truth within; and the confirmation/corroboration of truth realization. I think the whisper of truth and small still voice is not a vocalization particularly that is to be heard so much as it is like a beacon of light, a current or flowing of greater and lesser resistance to the reality currents (think the gravity circuits?), and acts like a moral/spirit compass of navigation. I also think that fear in all forms presents obstacles of resistance to these currents, however, confusion may be enjoyed in great confidence of eventual outcomes - the certainties of faith are a transformative power which allow us to overcome doubts and uncertainties (confusion). Or so has been my experience.

I've heard it said that if we are not confused then we are not paying attention. Confusion is a lack of knowledge and experience...it is not a lack of faith or trust. We are to be confused....that is why we are given a nearly endless stream of decisions to gain experiential wisdom. Those who are not confused truly suffer a passive indifference to truth and a smug prejudice or self satisfaction with their current beliefs and results.

In my life I've found the voice within to minister directly to my motives and my intentions and when those are purified and sanctified by love and service I am immediately immersed by a sense of rightness and a comforting confirmation of oneness within. Now it is certainly true that this inner love response and extension of love - good motive and intent - did not immediately and does not still always deliver the best act and choice and decision or that elusive thing called wisdom. We only achieve wisdom by endless repeated choices seeking that ever better and ever wiser choice.

But we can change our motives for living and being, and do so far more rapidly and successfully than the quest for wisdom and enlightenment. Indeed, wisdom cannot ever come to us prior to or without this willful and personal change in our inner reasons for being - the love motive and trust/faith in God and the friendly universe adventures to come. We can, and must, lay aside fear in favor of trust. And this, I think, is the voice within - trust and love. It's not a voice of instruction saying do this and do that....just DO in trust and love.....experience will deliver the rest over time.

By such a philosophy of living, mistakes and errors are still to be expected in our choices and decisions. The vicissitudes of living and the edges of conflict remain for the believer and truthseeker and Paradise Pilgrims....we children of time. But the purified motive for our choices will strengthen our courage and resolve and trust and deliver a growing faith and certainty in our minds and souls - even in the midst of mistaken or lesser choices so motivated.

110:3.5 (1206.3) Confusion, being puzzled, even sometimes discouraged and distracted, does not necessarily signify resistance to the leadings of the indwelling Adjuster. Such attitudes may sometimes connote lack of active co-operation with the divine Monitor and may, therefore, somewhat delay spiritual progress, but such intellectual emotional difficulties do not in the least interfere with the certain survival of the God-knowing soul. Ignorance alone can never prevent survival; neither can confusional doubts nor fearful uncertainty. Only conscious resistance to the Adjuster’s leading can prevent the survival of the evolving immortal soul.

110:3.6 (1206.4) You must not regard co-operation with your Adjuster as a particularly conscious process, for it is not; but your motives and your decisions, your faithful determinations and your supreme desires, do constitute real and effective co-operation. You can consciously augment Adjuster harmony by:

110:3.7 (1206.5) 1. Choosing to respond to divine leading; sincerely basing the human life on the highest consciousness of truth, beauty, and goodness, and then co-ordinating these qualities of divinity through wisdom, worship, faith, and love.

110:3.8 (1206.6) 2. Loving God and desiring to be like him — genuine recognition of the divine fatherhood and loving worship of the heavenly Parent.

110:3.9 (1206.7) 3. Loving man and sincerely desiring to serve him — wholehearted recognition of the brotherhood of man coupled with an intelligent and wise affection for each of your fellow mortals.

110:3.10 (1206.8) 4. Joyful acceptance of cosmic citizenship — honest recognition of your progressive obligations to the Supreme Being, awareness of the interdependence of evolutionary man and evolving Deity. This is the birth of cosmic morality and the dawning realization of universal duty.

159:3.6 (1766.2) Sometime the children of the kingdom will realize that strong feelings of emotion are not equivalent to the leadings of the divine spirit. To be strongly and strangely impressed to do something or to go to a certain place, does not necessarily mean that such impulses are the leadings of the indwelling spirit.

159:3.7 (1766.3) Forewarn all believers regarding the fringe of conflict which must be traversed by all who pass from the life as it is lived in the flesh to the higher life as it is lived in the spirit. To those who live quite wholly within either realm, there is little conflict or confusion, but all are doomed to experience more or less uncertainty during the times of transition between the two levels of living. In entering the kingdom, you cannot escape its responsibilities or avoid its obligations, but remember: The gospel yoke is easy and the burden of truth is light.

159:3.8 (1766.4) The world is filled with hungry souls who famish in the very presence of the bread of life; men die searching for the very God who lives within them. Men seek for the treasures of the kingdom with yearning hearts and weary feet when they are all within the immediate grasp of living faith. Faith is to religion what sails are to a ship; it is an addition of power, not an added burden of life. There is but one struggle for those who enter the kingdom, and that is to fight the good fight of faith. The believer has only one battle, and that is against doubt — unbelief.

8) Bradly


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Jim and Bradly,

Thank you for your replies, very much appreciated and very inspirational too.



Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Truth
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fanofVan wrote:
I've heard it said that if we are not confused then we are not paying attention. Confusion is a lack of knowledge and experience...it is not a lack of faith or trust. We are to be confused....that is why we are given a nearly endless stream of decisions to gain experiential wisdom. Those who are not confused truly suffer a passive indifference to truth and a smug prejudice or self satisfaction with their current beliefs and results.

I'm sorry, I'm a little confused.

Are you an advocate for being in perpetual confusion?


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Well....not about the same things no. We are, after all, to learn...more and more. Does one learn without some confusion in attendance? Isn't there always more to learn and much of that more difficult in the learning? There are always different ways to do anything....which one is better? Which ones need improving?

It's not about perpetual confusion. It's about finding the better option at the intersections of decision with the objective of self mastery and situational response. Sometimes the better choice is more obvious than other times, no?

Experiential wisdom will involve confusion....and that's no big deal. Confusion is one source of the uncertainties we all face. And we are taught we will come to feast on the adventures delivered by uncertainty. And that uncertainty and confusion may be enjoyed in full faith and confidence in ultimate outcomes when we trust God and believe in God's goodness.

I've been a parent a long time.....and that still confuses me!

8)


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Thanks fanoVan for the technical clarification that Mighty Messenger are mortal ascendent creatures rather than strictly Material Sons and Daughters.

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closer to our common keeper


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